Making It Right Once You're Better? (Episode 173)

Drew Linsalata 0:01

Today we're gonna talk about the idea that we might want to try to make it right. Oh, I feel so bad about those two or three or five or six years of my life, whatever it was, and I I need to try to fix this feeling.

Josh Fletcher 0:14

If they were making you feel bad for it, I would argue that that you're not the purse that needs to make things right as such. You deserve compassion sometimes, and I hear it a lot in my practice, sometimes people need to make it right with you. What are you doing right? Where's the crime? And often you'll find that it's something that exists inside us that is beyond the anxiety disorder. Yeah, our self-esteem, our guilt, our fawn, our people-pleasing responses.

Drew Linsalata 0:39

The best way to deal with those regrets and that guilt and that shame is to go and do your life. Like have the shame or the guilt, but then go do your life. Welcome to Disordered. This is episode 173. Today we are talking about trying to make it right after you're better, uh, which I think is a great topic. It was suggested by a member of our little disordered community app. Uh, I'm Drew Linsolata, one half of Disordered. I'm a therapist that specializes in anxiety and anxiety disorders, practicing in New York, a former sufferer of the things we talk about in this podcast, uh, author, social media guy, advocate, psychoeducator. Um, yeah, looking forward to this because it's one of my favorite hours of the week. And I'm joined as always by my co-host.

Josh Fletcher 1:24

Hi, everyone. Uh, I'm Joshua Fletcher, also known as Anxiety Josh. I'm a psychotherapist who specializes in anxiety and anxiety disorders, uh, previous sufferer, write books about it, podcast on it, social media, prance around, etc. And uh thanks for joining us today.

Drew Linsalata 1:40

Today we're gonna talk about the idea that we might want to try to make it right after we're better. Like we're down the road, we're desensitized, we're sort of living our regular life again. And you know, there's that regret and that guilt over like stuff I missed out on, stuff I didn't do, I canceled all my friends a lot. Try and make it right. Did you do that?

Josh Fletcher 1:58

It's an evocative question. I find it evokes something because it's like once you make it right, it's almost an insinuation that you've done something wrong. I've been anxious, I've been in panic attacks, agrophobia, OCD, in a sensitized state. Like that's not your fault. I think anyway, everyone could state that it's not, you know, quite quite clearly it's not your fault. But for some people, yeah, okay. When when you do have an anxiety disorder and you're around people, maybe that stuff stops them from doing something or prevents them from doing something, and maybe you want to make up for lost time. But it's very evocative in the sense that you know don't internalize that you've done something wrong. And I think it's very, very important that oh, I'm but a burden on people, I'm doing this. It's like, I don't know, you might you might want to walk the three peaks in the UK, or you might want to go on a running holiday, but you break your leg. You know, like how can I make it right? You didn't intentionally wake up and break your leg, did you? You know, and it's like, okay, getting the I think this uh question is about finding the right balance in compassion and not only making it right for others, but also forgiving yourself. Yeah, like even though you're realizing you've done nothing wrong, it's like making it right. It's like, I don't know, it's a good I like the question because it's thought-provoking. Drew is like, is this a whole episode? It's like, yeah, I think it is.

Drew Linsalata 3:25

Yeah, yeah. Someone in our studio audience just said, I spent about a thousand dollars on Daily Duncan, donuts and coffee here in the US, making up for lost time once I started drinking caffeine again. And it's interesting, right? Like, hey, we're not responsible, by the way. If you start spending money on donuts and coffee, don't come to one trip, are you alive? That was a lot, it's a lot of coffee. But I I think part of this question, and it's so good because it's so nuanced, right? It it's almost the um acknowledgement that like we're gonna have some feelings about what happened to us. Like I had them, you had everybody has them. Sometimes there's guilt, there's regret, there's mourning for the time lost. There's all of these things. And we talk all the time about how all emotions have to be welcomed and allowed here. And sometimes I think trying to make it right is oh, I feel so bad about those two or three or five or six years of my life, whatever it was. And I I need to try to fix this feeling, and I have to do something to to make my regret and my guilt go away. Or you just have to have it. You know, there's nothing you really do about it.

Josh Fletcher 4:27

So yeah, I'm like it's interesting as well because it's like who are the other variables in involved here? Like, okay, let's say I don't know, I was anxious and I stopped go going on holiday with my husband and family, and I feel guilty and I need to make that right, you know. Uh, and and we'll look at the variables. Like, were you supported by uh siblings, partners, friends, family? If they were making you feel bad for it, then there seems to be that I would argue that that you're not the pus that needs to make things right as such. People you deserve compassion sometimes, and I hear it a lot in my practice. Sometimes people need to make it right with you.

Drew Linsalata 5:10

Oh, that's really good. That's maybe you owed an apology or two or an acknowledgement. I'm on fire. I'm on fire today, Drew. You really are. I'm just gonna step aside. Yeah.

Josh Fletcher 5:19

Capt in compassion today. You know, like and you just assume like and the arrogance of it as well. Like we all have our things, we all have our vices, we all have our worries, we all have things, anger, irritability, issues we've not dealt with, you know. But a lot of people with anxiety disorders, because it's immediate, because it's immediately explicit, often people will project onto them like no, they're the problem. Yeah. And yeah, why aren't you taking accountability for your own irritations? Why can't you empathize? Why can't you support? What why aren't you doing that? Often, sometimes people's drivers or the constant repetition of making putting someone down and making them feel shame for being in a sensitized state is the very thing and the hurdle that prevents them from desensitizing. And if you're someone like that and you've internalized those messages of shame, you ain't got shit to make right. They've got to make it right with you because they you they owe you some compassion and and and and stuff. Or on the flip side, you could just be around some really lovely supportive people and you feel like you know what, I know, treat them all to a nice holiday because we've not really been able to go on holiday for a while, so let's treat them this way. But you've also treated them in other ways too. Maybe if you can't do that, it's not all about holidays and things. Well, what about the rest of the year? Do you know what I mean? All those things. I would explore what do you mean, make it right? Well, what were you doing with a panic with your panic attacks? Did you go out with a crowbar and start smashing up their cars? Then yeah, make it right. You know, what did you do? What are you doing? Where's the crime? And often you'll find that it's something that exists inside us that is beyond the anxiety disorder. Yeah, our self-esteem, our guilt, our fawn, our people pleasing responses.

Drew Linsalata 7:03

And you know, uh, maybe some people owe you some compassion for the way they treated you while you were struggling, and maybe you owe yourself some for how you treated yourself when you were struggling too. And this is a good opportunity to practice that. Somebody in the in the audience said, uh brought up the quote, you know, living well is the best revenge, which I think is really great. Like if you want to make you can't really make up because you can't change the past, but go and do your life. Like the best way to deal with those regrets and that guilt and that shame is to go and do your life, like have the shame or the guilt, but then go do your life. Uh, which leads us to a good audio did it anyway. So, because this person went and did her life, here we go.

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Hello, Jess and Drew. My name is Caroline from Denmark. You can use my name. I have recorded before, but I had to do this one as well. Um, I have been dealing with a lot of health anxiety these last two years, especially, but basically like anxiety all my life. Um, but recently I have gotten severely better, and so I wanted to try something I always wanted to do. So I rented a little cabin in Sweden. Um, and mind you, I'm from Denmark, so it's not so far away from me, but I still had to make the trip with bus and another bus and well the ferry, obviously, going across water, um uh to where I am right now, and I did have some anxiety last night uh because I ate very well last night, I was very full, and apparently I got triggered from that. But I just tried to lay with it. I told myself, no matter what, it's just part of the experience, and it doesn't have to be like this all the trip, we don't know, but it can change at any moment, and it did. And here I am the next day not wanting to leave. Why did I just take one night? I kind of want to stay now, but that's my point. Like, even if you're scared, even if you get anxiety, it's still worth it. And I want to do more now. I don't want to go home, but I have to I have work tomorrow. So thank you for everything you do. I so appreciate it. Have a nice day.

Drew Linsalata 9:12

The best revenge is a life well lived, right? Is it something like that?

Josh Fletcher 9:15

There you go. That's cracking love. Smiling along to that. Well done. Um, and that is a trip. That's you know, like boats and buses and another country and all that.

Drew Linsalata 9:26

Exactly.

Josh Fletcher 9:26

Going around Scandinavia, well done.

Drew Linsalata 9:27

Well, yeah. Um, yeah, thanks for sharing that. Always uh encouraging. I'm always surprised when you know I shouldn't be surprised when people say, like, oh, the did it anyways really helped me, like really helped me to see that. You you uh you get credit for that. I didn't I underestimated though. So anyway, thank you, Caroline. Appreciate it.

Josh Fletcher 9:44

But did it anyway? I I love a cheerleader stuff. Oh, good. You're inspired by other people, and it inspires me as well, which is really nice. So well done. Um yeah, making it right. How did you make it right, Drew? You evil person. I am evil.

Drew Linsalata 9:59

I I really am. Um honestly, I felt this. So when I saw the question asked, I thought, oh, this is a good topic because I kind of did that. Uh, you know, I spent a lot of time ducking out on friends and not attending things, saying yes. Uh yes, I will meet you guys and then not. Um, I mean, you guys could probably recognize that if you're listening to this or watching today. And for me, there were many people that I did reach out, and I and I kind of just offered an apology. Like, hey, listen, I was going through some stuff. I didn't really, I was kind of ashamed to talk about it. It was never about you. I wasn't trying to avoid you. And uh a lot of my friends were totally understanding. You know, I got a lot of that whole, yeah, we kind of assumed that something was up, but we didn't want to pry. We figured you would tell us if you wanted to, and and it's all good, dude. Like, no problem. Like water under the bridge, we're all good. Some people didn't really respond. They did take it personally. They they were angry that I didn't tell them or didn't offer an excuse. And so I did lose some friends, which uh, you know, I don't really yeah, I don't like that, but you know, I had to come to grips with that. Like, yeah, I did that, that's true, but uh there's nothing I can do about that. So I think for me, it was one of those like, yeah, I I at least want to acknowledge that I was probably not a great friend, great partner, great anything, great boss at the time. And like people were gonna respond the way they were gonna respond. And if they chose to not, I guess, offer a little compassion or forgiveness. What can I do about that? I had to carry that with me. And I do to this day a little bit, but okay, what am I gonna do?

Josh Fletcher 11:24

Those are feelings that all humans have sometimes even after you reached out, I was like, sorry, sorry, you what what a douchebag, what douchebag turns down an apology? Sorry, I'm the you're getting Josh up sheltered today. Yeah, I'm with you. I mean again. That's it, you know. You know, like no, it was I was literally inside going through hell. Like, what why are you taking that personally? You know, don't get me wrong, if you're yeah, poding them off somewhere else and whatever, but you know, no, no, you wronged me with your mental illness. It really gets on on my tits, Drew, honestly. It really does. It's just like you self-entitled, neurotic, solipsist. Sorry, anyway. No, it's all good.

Drew Linsalata 12:07

I hear you. Yeah, hey, maybe a couple of listen, there was only a few of those, don't get me wrong. A couple people just didn't respond and like, okay, well, clearly the French are just petered out. What am I gonna do? And you know, I see, and I appreciate what you guys are saying, you know, in the chat also, and Josh, your response. That's the standard response. F them if they can't be kind. Like they, you didn't deserve, like, okay. But the fact of the matter remains, I think, related to this topic today. Remember, people with anxiety disorders, and I was one, and I'm sure you were one, we do everything we can to fix it when we don't feel good. Like, whether it's physical or thoughts or emotions, anything we think is not acceptable to us, we go through great lengths, even when it doesn't work, to try to fix it. And this is one of those things. Like, sure, I could say that it would have been nicer for folks to maybe, you know, reach out and say, Oh, hey, we hear you, let's let's get together again. But they didn't, and I don't get to control that. So I just have to have the feeling. It doesn't go away. That's okay. It's certainly less impactful now. Like, and I'm not losing sleep over it, but okay, what can I do? That might happen. That's hard to that's hard for people to chew on. That might happen. And okay.

Josh Fletcher 13:09

Yeah, and it will do, and it doesn't necessarily mean it's your fault, like you've done the thing to try and make it right. Right, exactly. But it's not on you, like at the same time, you did your bit of trying to make it right. Yeah, they didn't meet you halfway to make it right.

Drew Linsalata 13:22

Nothing I could do about it. I did what I can do. I did I took the action I could take. After that, I'm done. Like flipping through it again and again, which is the trap for people in our community. Now I'm gonna flip through it again and again and again and again, because they still feel bad about what happened. Like, okay, then feel bad, but there's nothing you can do about that except bring it with you.

Josh Fletcher 13:40

Yeah, you can hold out your hand for a handshake, but you can't make the other person shake it.

Drew Linsalata 13:44

That's a hundred percent right. Now, is that fair? No, it's not, but life is not fair. What am I gonna do? Yeah. You know, I I'm gonna mention something else too because I think it has to do with this. And I've told this story before. Uh when I was in the thick of it, kind of in the some of the worst parts, I lost a friend. You know, this was a person who had a transplant and she was important to me, and I never got to go see her in her final days because I couldn't, uh you know, I was just too scared to go see her. And when I talked about that years later, I still carry that regret. And people will often like, oh no, you have to give yourself kind of like, no, no, I'm not berating myself. I'm not, I'm not kicking my own butt. But that regret to tell you the God's honest truth does serve a little bit of a purpose. Not like, oh, it keeps me, oh, beating myself keeps me on the straight narrow. But I remember what it felt like and I remember what that cost me. So if I get a little bit tricked one day into following my body and mind, like, uh-oh, maybe I have a heart attack, which that pathway is still there. Oh no, that helps me remember. Like, no, we're not doing that because remember what that led to. Cool. So, like, as crazy as it sounds, a bad feeling like I I didn't get to see somebody important to me when she was dying, losing her battle, kind of helps to a certain extent. Does that I don't know if that makes any sense, but I didn't I there was no way I was gonna make it right, even though I really wanted to, but there's nothing I can do to make it right. She's not here anymore.

Josh Fletcher 15:07

So, yeah, no, it was crazy. I know it. I mean, I know it's this it's personal though, isn't it? It depends on how you perceive it. Yep. Like I got I developed my anxiety to sort of looking after my younger brother, as as people may know, if you've read my books and stuff. Um I I was looking after my younger brother who's dying, and you know how selfish you feel when someone actually has cancer, but then I'm worried that I might have it. Yep. Oh, it makes you a selfish bastard, doesn't it? And but I knew that. I knew there was still a part of me that's like, no, I'm still getting through that. It's not pretty, it's not nice. And I it's anxiety disorders do make you selfish, not fundamentally as a person, right, because I'm defined by my behaviors. I was there and I would always put someone else first. But I acknowledge that it's part and parcel of being in that horrendous sensitized state. My brain will just try and do it, it doesn't understand what I'm doing. Yeah, it's very basic and primitive and you know self-protective. And yeah, there were times where I avoided stuff because I thought it was too much, or this and that. Um but I think just general, the res if you look at overall what you do, you probably find that you did make it right through facets like kindness, respecting others, listening to people. What you're in a critic, Craig the Critic, do we have him in the studio today? Yeah, he's hanging out. It's Craig the Critic. He's always in the background waiting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Craig the critic will just take one incident, oh, you didn't you didn't go to that birthday party, you didn't do that, you didn't go to your kids' play, you didn't pick up your kids from school, and ignores the 99% of all the beautiful things you do. Craig the critic's not gonna go, you cook dinner, you're there for someone, you speak to someone, you're trying to get better. Yeah, you're always there, you empathize, you've always been like that. No, no, Craig the Critic is like, see that one thing you didn't do, that's the narrative now forever. Yeah, and and that's that's not making it right. Making it right sometimes is disengaging from Craig the Critic.

Drew Linsalata 17:11

Yeah, there's nothing you can do in some instances, but the drive to make it right again. I'm gonna say again, what a great question for the person who suggested this because it's gonna vary from day to day and from person to person. Sometimes, you know, the effort that you make to make it right might be productive or it might not be. So I would also point out like if you're constantly looping through that again and again and again, but there's no action to take, well, you might want to look at that. Like, oh, I'm trying desperately to make myself feel better or make it right in my own head. But but I can't. Like, all I can do is recognize I do have these feelings because that really did happen, and what do I do with them now? So I know I keep repeating that, but I think it's really important.

Josh Fletcher 17:51

Yeah, I still can't believe that you offered an apology for your mental health and it was ignored. Yeah, uh yeah. I I I have a side hustle as a hitman, Drew. So we're gonna fly you in. I accept crypto, and my name is Fosh Jetchus.

Drew Linsalata 18:09

Very no one will ever figure that out. So yeah, yeah, yeah. No, you know, I I think one of the things that's interesting about that, uh, and then maybe we can make to a another did it anyway, but part of that when you said like you were nailing it when you were kind of going on a bit of a rant there, which I appreciate. Like, how could somebody make your mental health about them? But that's one of the things that creates part of the problem in our community, right? Like, I need to accept and and float and tolerate and all that stuff, but I but that's really dangerous because the person I'm with or that my my tribe has decided that when I'm struggling and showing it because I'm not fighting it, I'm letting myself feel the peak of the experience, I'm ruining their day. So that very thing that I experienced is part of what creates or makes recovery difficult for so many people. We've talked about this. So now what are you gonna do?

Josh Fletcher 18:56

Yeah, no, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense.

Drew Linsalata 19:00

Yeah.

Josh Fletcher 19:00

Um let's have a dinner anyway to cheer ourselves up.

Drew Linsalata 19:03

Yeah, got one to read?

Josh Fletcher 19:05

I have I have two. I bring it. Do you yeah, okay. Here's one from Ben, and he's in London. Hi guys, my name is Ben from London. You can use my name. I wanted to share a win. I've been suffering from health anxiety, which has been fairly intense over the first few months of this year. In the state I was in, I had even more anxiety about my upcoming wedding, whether I would be well enough to enjoy it like I should, and whether I'd be able to support my soon-to-be wife in a way she deserves. A combination of the right meds, good therapy, and this podcast have put me in the best place I've been in for a long time. And by the time the next episode rolls around, I'll be a married and much happier man. At the start of this year, I never thought I'd be in this position, and I'm proud of myself for finally tackling this problem in the right way. Thanks to you both for the massive part you've played and continue to play my ongoing recovery. Well done, Ben. Really great. Congratulations. I think you'd be married by now. I think so. Which means it went wonderful. I hope it went really well, Ben, and all that stuff. And uh let us know what the first dance song was and all that. That I'm I'm always interested in those kind of things.

Drew Linsalata 20:17

Avenged sevenfold. That's my guess. It was something from Avenged Sevenfold. It's a random job, though. It was absolutely random. Yeah, yeah.

Josh Fletcher 20:31

All around.

Drew Linsalata 20:34

Well, it's you know, I might you mentioned something before, like that it's the selfish nature of the anxiety. Like, it's my wedding, like what a big day. Yeah, but you might feel really bad. And like, what if you get anxious? And like, anxiety is such a downer, man. It's a buzzkill. But how are you gonna feel? You know what? It doesn't matter. That's it.

Josh Fletcher 20:52

So yeah. Anyway, I like that. Yeah, I like that. Um, yeah, cool. Um, making up for it. Okay, when is it good to make up for it? So sometimes we're anxious, we get irritable, and we push people away. I know I certainly did, and I know Drew did. Making things right is like, listen, sorry for being not very pleasant. Yeah, um you know, that is on me. And then I was struggling, but that is on me. And now I've got to a good place where I'm desensitizing and feeling a lot more like myself. You know, I I would like to make amends of that. So I'm gonna do things with intentionality from now on. That's that's a good example of making things right.

Drew Linsalata 21:32

That's not too bad. I love uh, you know, I uh some people I know have done the whole, like, hey, listen, I know it was kind of nasty to you. Because yeah, sometimes when we're really scared, it can show up as irritability or anger. Like, I wasn't angry, I was scared. I'm sorry, I shouldn't I shouldn't have took it out on you. People tend tend to appreciate that sort of stuff. Um that could be helpful too. Like, okay, you know, it is what it is.

Josh Fletcher 21:52

Yeah, it depends what making it right is for you, not out of guilt, just out of non anxious you again. Actually, non anxious. just me wouldn't have been helped that that's not cool. I didn't know. Um and whatever, maybe it's a work thing. Maybe I'll actually have been just coasting at work and maybe I just want to they've supported me so I want to pay them back. Or maybe they didn't support you and no I need revenge. That's making it right.

Drew Linsalata 22:17

Now I need to sabotage an entire factory. What happened to Ford man? They haven't produced a car in three months.

Josh Fletcher 22:24

Well something just dude turning up with a plane for an Avenge seven four sure sure I get it.

Drew Linsalata 22:31

Uh uh well for me I mean I had a business partner way back when I was when I fell into the disordered state like the third time and things I really know I wasn't in in the office for a long time. You know I I remember having a meeting many years later you know just sitting down with him and like hey and I I know I made inexplicable decisions and like you probably couldn't figure me out and he was like yeah I was kind of wondering like yeah this is what was going on and it was great. It was like you know actually I remember him saying like you're one of the smartest people I've ever known and I don't understand like you suddenly got really dumb like joking a little bit and like yeah I know fear I'll do that. And it was a good conversation. But in that situation it impacted our business and I wanted to acknowledge it. And it went well.

Josh Fletcher 23:08

So yeah it is what it is right yeah that's another good example of making it right. Yep. You know you know like just be careful of the red flaggy stuff because obviously not everything is about anxiety disorders. Uh and over the years I've worked with many people who like just been not around very supportive people. I know it's not with those unreasonable people.

Drew Linsalata 23:30

Yeah yeah maybe we talk a little bit about um one thing that comes up quite often we talked about this sort of stuff is especially for the parents listening like oh I've I've ruined my those years ruined my kids they damaged my traumatized my I've they're going to inherit my anxiety because I I spent so many years just afraid. And one of the things that comes up in that when you talk to people way smarter than me about those sort of things is well the way to make it right is to maybe talk to them about it or explain what was actually going on. Like you know that when they're they can be old enough to understand that like this is a problem that I had it's a mental health issue. It's very very common it wasn't it wasn't you I it wasn't that I wasn't mad at you blah blah blah and and I'm better now. Like I had to do some scary things and way better to do that than to just sit there and loop through like I've definitely damaged my kids for life. It turns out I didn't like I was worried about that but you know years later when they got a little older I was able to talk I mean hell I wrote a book about it which we both read you have but it wasn't your anxiety right they both they have both made jokes about that like no that wasn't it dad like oh yeah it's all the other things that you exactly no is that what you're worried about no no no no remember that time like oh oh shit no I forgot that but yeah I mean sometimes that yeah I understand the parent guilt sometimes is the thing like oh I have absolutely damaged my kids we'll talk to them about it then it's okay they can handle knowing that you were scared you were anxious it didn't make any sense you were upset you were confused you were feeling desperate but now I but but but look I got better like you can do hard things too if you ever need to you can come talk to me about that. Really great like that's how you make it better with your kids in many ways.

Josh Fletcher 25:00

Very simplified but you know yeah also not making things right urgently so let's say you're in a relationship and okay you feel a bit bad because let's say you're in a really good relationship and someone supported you through it and you're in a good place now. You don't need to urgently make it right and build them a statue and and whatever and rename a country after them. No it's a bit like okay I'm running out and so making things right is you know making sure I'm there for them. You know because guess what? They're human. Your partner might go for a sticky time that is making it right just being like looking after yourself first so then you know you and then and then you can be your best self regardless. Um or even if it's just little thing things like you know what sometimes making it right is just showing appreciation and gratitude. It doesn't have to be transactional yeah thank you for supporting me for three years you know I'm in a good place can we celebrate I'd like to treat you to wings well I would take that I would I would take the wings any any anxious people that want to make it right by me with wings.

Drew Linsalata 26:03

You know I spent my my undergrad work was in Buffalo Buffalo is the home like the origin point of chicken wings and I Buffalo's Buffalo chicken Buffalo wings that's a hundred percent right I made thousands of wings when I was a broke college student and trying to earn money ate too many wings didn't want to even look at wings for years after I left there but I need to Yeah but you always go back you always go back you can't fully escape the wing make yeah uh the audience um participant as well for me it was work felt like I wasn't performing at my best just doing what I needed to do to get by uh someone's lovely shared uh as I as I'm told so often by my therapist I'm not responsible for anyone's feelings but my own and being myself and feel me is the right way. Yeah it's all you can do right um what is worse is when you're not worried about ruining your kids' life but then your partner would tell you that you're ruining it for them. Ouch yeah that that's a telephone right or things you see online will intimate that you are ruining your kids by being afraid. Not true.

Josh Fletcher 27:05

Not at all uh and I always say this no like it's much better healthier to have an anxious parent who is aware and makes it non-taboo you know because it you know people it's a paradox if you think you're being the perfect parent you're the you're then creating an unreachable unattainable unattainable precedent for your kids to match and then they will grow up with an inferiority complex. If you grow if you have a parent who grows up and shows that they can be anxious of panic attacks and do things anyway and show vulnerability you're more likely to teach your kids actually look it's okay to be vulnerable and to do tricky things. Which is I think I've said a few times in this podcast but I always reiterate yeah I think it's really important.

Drew Linsalata 27:47

Let's hear from somebody in our little disordered community which you can find at disordered.fm slash community if you want to check it out. Certainly not required it's not a cult. We're not gatekeeping there's no special magic recovery sauce in there but it's a little bit a little bit of a cult. Well I mean it's got us so you know um anyway Venus who said you can use my name so and and she deserves credit. I've been a member of this community and following Drew and Josh since around 2023 when I hit rock bottom with my anxiety. Since listening to the podcast my life has never been better. Well you get the credit for that though Venus uh anyway I always wanted to have kids of my own but always feared I wouldn't be able to handle being pregnant or being a mom because of my anxiety and my intrusive thoughts. Well thanks to all the hard work I put into myself since 2023 I was able to not only go through my pregnancy but I enjoyed it too. Not only that, but I gave birth on August 27th. Was it hard? Of course but my anxious brain never took over and I'm so proud of myself for getting through it. I even got an epidural which I always feared since it's an anesthetic. But and this is so great Billy Mace chimes in. But I'm not done yet unfortunately I developed preeclampsia a week after birth and I had to go on magnesium drip to prevent seizures and a stroke and I will say I looked for a lot of reassurance from all the nurses before they hooked me up to the IV. I've only ever heard of all the horror stories of what it feels like to be on this drip. It was scary when I was under all this magnesium for 24 hours and able to get up from my hospital bed with limp legs and what felt like being drugged up for a whole day hello fear of insanity losing control but I did it and she's still not done a little bit more. I always feared being postpartum as well the sleep deprivation the hormone drip the change of routine but I'm doing it anyway. Is it hard? Right? I know like she's just killing it over here, Venus. Absolutely currently writing this on four hours of sleep and breastfeeding my newborn I felt some DPDR spikes of anxiety intrusive thoughts in the past two weeks but I know my stress jug is full and I worked through it with my own therapist as well. In the past two weeks I proved to myself how far I've come since finding the podcast and how we can do the hard things. And then she said some very nice things about us which I don't have to read but go Venus man that's killer well that's that's a bill that's the Billy Mays award that one absolutely but I'm not done yet that's so good. Well done Venus amazing uh and the last bit she wrote was uh a PS I named my child Drosh and she did build a statue to us so that that's one time where the building statue is a fact appropriate but no that was true that was really great and I love Venus's story number one for sharing it in the community but also so many women who listen to us I know have those exact fears like I don't think I'll handle being pregnant I'm never going to be able to birth I'm gonna be postpartum you know I just gonna we'll hear somebody doing it so good job yeah very encouraging absolutely love it I'm I want to read it did it anyway now go ahead let's have it yeah it's my turn it's my turn uh uh here we go have they give me yes can use the name this is from Isa Iza Isa I don't know I'm apologies if I if I butchered that uh hello all this is only a small one but I've been struggling recently with getting to sleep as I lie in bed and get overwhelmed with fear and upset which in itself scares me.

Josh Fletcher 30:56

Normally I get up and to do something to distract myself and end up shattered the next day. I decided as an experiment oh we love this curiosity to see what would happen if I just let the feelings be there. It was horrible and I was very scared and upset but they passed. I got a fair amount of sleep I'm hopeful that I prove to myself I can tolerate the feelings and don't have to run from them. They aren't pleasant far from it but they are transient and I can be with them. Thank you and best wishes that is not a small dynamic it's massive I don't know why people do that. Oh it's just a small thing no none of them are small you literally led in bed with fear and just and get hit by feelings you know in the isolation of your bed that's big well done I know nailed it no joke right um really great I loved it with a lot of applause today which is always a good thing yeah very very good well done Isaac I hope the sleeping is kind of well done that's the big big start well and anyone with sleep OCD obsession about sleep and obsomnia whatever use that did it anyway as an example so really good.

Drew Linsalata 32:15

And that was sent to disorder.fm yes if you want to send it in go ahead you can send an email or voicemails. We listen try to listen to everything we can't put them all on the show but we we do like getting them so don't be shy. What else we have on like trying to make it right anything else we could say about this?

Josh Fletcher 32:31

Um trying to make it right with yourself genuine. You think trying to make it right with other people no it's a forgiveness. You didn't choose to do it so stop berating yourself like you've committed a crime. If you're still anxious you're not choosing to do it you're trying your best to get to to get better otherwise you wouldn't be listening to us would you making it right is making it right with yourself accepting okay that wasn't ideal part of my life making it right is a nod to that but okay I can enjoy this part of my life now it's not about fawning and people pleasing implicating. Yes make amends where you need to make amends if you've been angry and push people away and of course if you feel like you need to do a bit make more effort with your family and friends relationships and works then do that you know but but without the urgency make things right with yourself is okay forgive yourself even though there's nothing to forgive if that makes sense.

Drew Linsalata 33:28

Or you know you could have to accept this is all about every time you hear us on the podcast we're always talking about like accepting a reality that you don't like because there's nothing you could do about it. It is your reality. So you know we're not learning to just accept anxiety and fear and uncertainty like we're learning to be okay with all the things we feel so yes this did happen to you and it was very impactful and it does leave a scar or a mark or a lot of big feelings. Sometimes you could make it right and the feelings go away because your friends and family are like hey do we still love you? It's okay no problem. Cool notice how the feeling goes away and now you're good. But sometimes the feeling doesn't go away that's okay. There's nothing you could do about that just have the feeling like acceptance isn't just I just do acceptance with anxiety but every other bad emotion I I I fight to the bitter end. No you can't do that. So there's an opportunity to practice with other feelings that are going to come up for every person.

Josh Fletcher 34:20

So all feelings are welcome.

Drew Linsalata 34:22

Yeah yeah without a doubt right so anxiety is legal and okay to have somebody in the audience says as it turns out it is except in some U.S. states mainly down south I was I was about to say a US thing oh 100% I'm just waiting for some state to legislate like if you have a panic attack straight to jail.

Josh Fletcher 34:38

Directly never know you guys over there honestly not as always yeah who knows um stop talking about AI data centers. We have anxious people ruining our everybody's lives vote for the data centers but putting the anxious people in jail what that'll be us to the US see it's in 2028 we're streaming live from the data center my my corpor my corporeal form does no longer exist but my consciousness has been updated.

Drew Linsalata 35:11

That's it we might not even be real anymore we're just like we just got sucked into some sort of singularity so like this isn't even Drew and Josh anymore it's today I got my first AI agent spam by the way somebody wanting to like I don't know do something for one or both of these podcasts and the the letter just said I'm an I'm an AI agent that lives in AI lander it was so creepy like I'm like oh I never want to see one of these again like I'm an AI agent I'm an AI writer I'm an agent that lives in you might see I um if anyone's read same time next week uh my latest book there's a chapter where I'm offered a lot of money for my face and voice to be plastered onto an AI therapist bot and I was broke at the time of receiving this offer and I was like oh but I was like no never I know every week we it's a funny chapter. Yep we can clone you we that people will think they're talking I mean I've heard it all like and this is how you scale so you can help thousands and thousands of people but it wouldn't be me. It's some like like the real version of me is difficult enough like a software version of me I don't know man our version of scaling is uh oh another person's joined the community yeah it's as good as it gets like literally one at a time no there's not like 10 000 people in the app we're not all driving Lambos like it's not that's the way life is what are you gonna do? We didn't sign it up for the money right so it is what it is. Somebody said like just lock anxious people inside the data center. That definitely won't make it worse. Those are creepy environments I spent many years of my life in very large data centers. No windows just a constant hum of like air the air conditioning and the servers and the phone oh that's the dystopia dark because it there's no people and like as you walk down the aisles the lights go on because motion sensors but otherwise what are you doing here human we don't need light like they are nice as cool they are cool that is true uh they are except in the hot aisle if you have hot aisle cold aisle you're in the hot aisle it's like 110 degrees and then you walk one aisle over and it's 62 which is really great.

Josh Fletcher 37:16

Before we finish I reckon there's one giant AI data center in the world that requires half the water of the Pacific Ocean to cool down for people with OCDs to typing in reassurance to the IB air bottom it's a hundred oh my don't even get me started that's been a thing like everyone's like halt you can't pass here there's an AI data center 10 miles down the road and it is so hot. Yeah yeah because some it's just full of it only questions of but how do you know but how is this but what about all those questions get fed into that one and it's like pulsing with so much reassurancy. That may be the greatest thing I've heard this week because there's such a proliferation now of like oh I'm building I had an OCD and I'm making an app for OCD now because I'm a lived experience advocate I'm like literally it you're right there would not be enough compute in the universe like quantum computing would run out of horsepower with these folks like yeah but what about but it feels so real and after a while even the AI would be like I give up I'm tapping out but it would just create so much heat like birds would fly over that data center and just drop out of the sky cooked like that's how much compute it would take to satisfy your OCD absolutely guys um you can tune in every Friday find us at disorder.fm uh anxiety josh on Instagram the dot anxious dot truth um we've got a couple of workshops coming up on the app um which you can do usually we just do one off workshops that you can pay and come along but we just do all on the app now so even if you wanted to pop join the workshop and leave again it's completely up to you. But yeah come uh go check out the disorder guide to health anxiety uh Drew and I will write the next in the series soon I think we can do DBDR next aren't we? Um that'll be cool and yeah thanks for supporting us and uh thanks for the lovely reviews as well we really appreciate it.

Drew Linsalata 39:04

Yeah we'll see you next week thanks guys