Craig The Critic (Episode 130)

SPEAKER_06 0:01

Who's Craig the Craig? Nagging internal voice wants to criticize us, question us, doubt us, tell us we're doing it wrong, suggest maybe that we're never gonna be who we hope we are. Keys are just the nasty SLB. I don't like that dude.

SPEAKER_05 0:15

When you take a lot of these very powerful drivers and how we measure our esteem, and then you mix that with an anxiety disorder, you have all sorts of fun in games, but not the kind of fun in games you want to play.

SPEAKER_06 0:26

The dude will run into ference and recovery all the time. You know, you're trying to do exposure, trying to face your fear, trying to learn from those lessons, and he will just jump in and block those lessons all the time.

SPEAKER_05 0:36

Craig the critic is constantly giving you feedback about what you should be doing. That's the one we've got to acknowledge and distance ourselves from.

SPEAKER_06 0:44

It's not only what you should be doing, he will often tell you what you should be feeling.

SPEAKER_05 0:53

Welcome to Disordered. This is episode 130, entitled Craig the Critic. It's Craig the Critic. Or Craig, if you are my cousins over that side of the Atlantic. My name's Joshua Fletcher, also known as Anxiety Josh. I'm a psychotherapist who specializes in anxiety and anxiety disorders. I'm based in Manchester in the UK, written several books on the topic, and the host of this fine podcast.

SPEAKER_06 1:21

And I'm joined by Hmm, I'm Drew Linzolata. Similar story as the other guy, just on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean in New York, also a therapist specializing in the treatment of anxiety and anxiety disorders, an author on the topic, former sufferer, social media dude, psychoeducator, all of the things, co-host of Disordered. Today we're going to talk about It's Craig the Critic. We haven't heard from him in a while.

SPEAKER_05 1:43

Yeah, very important. Coming up a lot as well in my in my private practice and how much having an internal critic really affects um our anxiety. But before we do that, why don't we kick off the episode with a wonderful community win? Yeah, I like it.

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Hi, Joan Josh. It's Lucy here. I just wanted to share my did it anyway moment with you both. I recently woke up from a nocturnal panic attack a couple of nights ago. I haven't had one in about a year, so it was just took me by surprise, really. As I woke up gasping for air, it just sort of sent me into panic mode. I eventually calmed myself down and got some sleep. But ever since the incident, I've been feeling super anxious and my esophagus feels so tense, almost like it's gonna close over whenever I leave the house. Um, so I was kind of avoiding doing trips and going out. But today I went out to the garden centre with my sister, which is about a 30-minute journey in the car. We um had lunch, which was lovely. The whole time I completely forgot about my throat, which was lovely. Um, so I knew it was just all in my head because once I was distracted, I was completely fine. Of course, on the journey home when I was on the car on my own again, the sensation came back, but I just knew that it was fine and that I carried on anyway. And I'm at home now with a nice cup of tea, just feeling a little bit smug because I did it anyway. So thank you.

SPEAKER_02 3:35

But I'm not done yet.

SPEAKER_06 3:36

Oh, that was an accidental Billy Mays.

SPEAKER_05 3:40

That's perfect. That's fine. Well done. Uh I love that. You should feel smug. You did something brave and you uh exceeded your own expectations. And uh feeling smug's great, it's compassionate, and it's it's it you've got one over Craig the Critic as well, which so it feeds lovely in today's episode. Um, I also love garden center as well. Um, the last time I was in a garden center, I asked one of the workers, I said, which plants can I have for my apartment that have the highest level of distress tolerance.

SPEAKER_06 4:15

I need something unkillable, please. Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 4:21

I love that. Oh, good job, Lucy. Craig the Crit. Well, who's Craig the Critic?

SPEAKER_06 4:25

Craig the Critic is that that nagging internal voice, and and he gets built from a lot of different things in life, experiences, family culture, you know, dynamics, society. Like that's that that voice inside of us that wants to criticize us, question us, doubt us, tell us we're doing it wrong, suggest maybe that we're never gonna be who we hope we are. We're too weak, we're too dumb, we're always gonna be anxious. Like, he's just a nasty SOB. I don't like that dude.

SPEAKER_05 4:54

Yeah, he often takes the mic as part of the uh drivers. That's the thing I want to talk about today. Our drivers. What drives us? What are we driving towards? Are we driving towards a conditional sense of self? I can be happy if dot dot dot or I've achieved dot dot dot, or I've pleased other people or myself. And when you take a lot of these very powerful drivers and how we measure our esteem, and then you mix that with an anxiety disorder, you have all sorts of fun in games, but not the kind of fun in games you want to play.

SPEAKER_06 5:33

That's true. I so there's I think there's two ways that Craig the Critic shows up as a driver of the anxious state itself, which is certainly possible, and then as just a giant the dude will run into ference and recovery all the time. You know, you're trying to do exposure, trying to face your fear, you're trying to learn from those lessons, and he will just jump in and block those lessons all the time, every chance he gets. It's a pain in the ass.

SPEAKER_05 5:57

Yeah, and when you apply it to like anxiety disorders, like it's I mean, I know Craig the critic is rampant with OCD, that horrible and cuternal criticism. What does this mean about you as a person? Who is this? You need confirmation, look at the state of you. If you're agrophobic, it's like, well, look at you, you're letting down your family, you're not doing this, you should be better by now, you know. And and it and it will try and kind of wet your bonfire a bit by saying, you know, okay, you could do that, but you'll never do this. You can't do that, you know. Yeah, or and again, you know, you know me, book burning Josh, ban the word the recovery, like, oh, you'll never be recovered, you'll never do that. Well, if you ban that word, then you can't really use it, you know, stuff like that. Um, and it's so powerful. If you're someone who has an internal critic, and it's Craig the critic is constantly giving you feedback of what what you, and here's the powerful word, should be doing. That's the one we've got to acknowledge and distance ourselves from. You should do this, you should do that. Um, did you ever have any of that during your time with anxiety?

SPEAKER_06 7:05

Yeah, I would I would say sure. Um, you should be for me, it was focused upon like you know, being a better father and you know, better partner and all these things, better friend, better like business owner. Like, you should be able to go to your own office without panicking, dude. It's like three miles away. What the hell? Like, you should be able to take your kids here. You should be able to be do this, you should be able to be alone in the house and like taking care of shit. Yeah. And so, like, often, you know, it's interesting. I never really thought about it until right now. This is like therapy with Josh, Drew gets therapy from Josh. But like, I I often will say, like, the me, the turning point was what I not only felt like I was failing, I started to feel like a failure, and that was Craig the Critic. That was a hundred percent from Craig the Critic. This is not right, it's not supposed to be this way. Let me add, it's not only what you should be doing, he will often tell you what you should be feeling or not feeling, which is insidious. I deal with that all the time in my practice. What you should be feeling, like really, no pressure, just feel shit.

SPEAKER_05 8:11

Didn't even think of it like that. Yeah, like Craig the Critic on your wedding day or at your children's birthday, or at your own at a restaurant or catching on. You should be feeling joy. Yeah, you should be feeling like everyone else in this room, even though Craig the Critic has no idea what everyone else in the room is feeling, no idea. It's taking snapshots of people's body language and then comparing you to that, yeah, to that complete ridiculous hypothesis, you know, and it's just like, hold on, I don't know what's going through here, and it's just constant. And for some people, and particularly people I've worked with, and a lot of people in this community, it's so automatic and been ingrained so much that they just think that that's thinking. But you know, we're on disordered here. We like to debunk the mechanism of even thinking.

SPEAKER_06 9:00

Yeah, yeah. I find that interesting. What you should be feeling, what you shouldn't be feeling. Like, no one else in this meeting is anxious. What's wrong with you? Why are you having this? Only you have this problem. Like, you're just going to take the kids to the dentist, you know. Like, why are you you shouldn't be anxious about that? Like, what are you talking about? Like, oh, no pressure. It'll just dictate to you what you should and shouldn't be feeling, as if you can control that. Come on, man. Give me a break. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:25

Well, you you can, can't you? Warren G says you can. So I hear. Thank you for that. Thanks for taking the pay. Um, yeah, you should, should, should such a powerful one. Um, even when you're trying to relax and enjoy your own personal time, you should be doing something else. You should be more productive, you should be optimizing yourself, you should be out there doing exposures, you should be doing ERP. It's like just chill out, Craig. I'm just trying to chill out and watch a movie. Yeah, you should, should, should. That's Craig the Critic. And if you can resonate with this, then that's what we're talking about in this episode. You just highlight it and go, there's Craig the Critic. All right. Yeah. Let him talk. Let him run his mouth.

SPEAKER_06 10:13

Yeah, that's a good point. You know what you gotta learn to say to Craig the Critic? It doesn't matter! Like it doesn't matter what he's saying to you. But we're gonna work on all the buttons today, by the way. I I accidentally put Billy Mays in, so we're going for all of them. Uh where do you think Craig the Critic comes from? Like, where does he hail from? What's his hometown?

SPEAKER_05 10:30

Oh, I love this question, and this is why partly why I became a therapist. Where does your Craig the Critic come from? Do you think you're born that way? Do you think that you leapt out of the womb with this inbuilt inner critic? Probably not. So we look at things like introjections, life lessons we've absorbed. It could be start with parents, you know, particularly if you're raised conditionally. Maybe you only received affection when you were extraordinary or perfect or met their criteria. Maybe you were criticized just a lot by parents, by partners, by in school, by siblings, and you've internalized that a bit, you know, this voice can grow. Now, it's it's healthy to have some level of critic. Otherwise, you know, you're just a raging narcissist. But when it's the the main voice that's choosing everything and dictating everything, that will get in the way of you. I'm not gonna use desensitizing yourself to anxiety.

SPEAKER_06 11:34

We gotta bleep out that word. I know we'll try and break ourselves you in the word. Yeah, I think one of the most maybe the parts we miss, everybody understands that, like, oh, Craig the Critic grows out of criticism, or I was harshly treated as a child, or I was, you know, impossible to meet community standards or academic standards, whatever it is. But there's also the other side of it, which is no, I wasn't really criticized, but I really wasn't praised either until I rose to extraordinary levels. Like I only found that there was worth in me when I performed perfectly or at a very high level, or I achieved, or like I was the top of the class, or I won the trophy. Then I would get attention and praise and validation. Otherwise, it was just sort of there. Yeah, that's insidious, right?

SPEAKER_05 12:17

And you can learn things just by observing. Yes. So like so, like I've um I've worked with people where like they've been fine, they're the golden child, you know, this is great, you know, and everything's well for them. But then they observe how like their loved ones treat people who are maybe less fortunate on that front. Maybe they've got problems of their own, maybe they've got a sibling who's mentally unwell or physically um disabled or something like that. And you can watch passively how people will treat them, and then that can give reinforce an idea that, well, in order to keep this feeling, I need to not be like that uh because I don't want to be treated like that. That's the it's a an indirect introjection, I call. Yeah, that's just that's just one of them, it's just being extraordinary. Like social media is another one. Craig the critic loves it when you scroll your feed. You know, here's me. Here we are at the pumpkin patch. Here I am with my chiseled, ripped body on a beach because my business is flourishing and my wonderful partner is amazing, and my kids look like they're in a Kodak commercial and everything's great. And your inner critic's going, Well, look at you. Yeah, you should be there. Why are you not doing it? And it just feeds off this. Craig the Critic loves it, and yeah, it's all nonsense, it's all superficial, it's all things that we've just kind of the our inner critic takes assumptions of, and it will just use it as ammo and bait to compare your current situation. And what I say to everyone is look, you're doing good, it's all good, you know. Yeah, if you sat there in, you know, pajamas with cornflakes done, you talk fair play. You're still doing it, you're still rocking it.

SPEAKER_06 14:05

Yeah. Assumptions is a big word there. You know, the the inner critic is usually based on assumptions. Like I have to fill in the blank. You remember your brain is a connection making prediction machine, like it's trying to fill in the blanks that it can't see. So yeah, like it will just assume how other people are feeling, their motivations, the outcomes of their actions, and then compare. Like, are you better or worse? Was this better or worse? They're better than me, I'm worse than them. Like, there's they're winning, I'm failing. They're weak, they're strong, I'm weak. Like, but so much is based on assumption that it doesn't make any sense. You have no idea what's going on in that person's life. We hear that all the time on social media. Like, hey, remember, you don't know that this is a highlight reel, you don't know the real life. Well, the same thing goes true with everything else that you craig the critic will come up to, come up with, you know.

SPEAKER_05 14:51

And we've missed the main one, which is comparing yourself to pre-sensitized you.

SPEAKER_06 14:57

Oh, that's exactly right. I'm failing compared to me. Oh, jeez. Like, how how difficult is that?

SPEAKER_05 15:03

You used to be able to go to the shops, you used to be able to go on holiday. Yeah, you never had these thoughts before, or you've recovered once. Why can't you do it again? Yeah, it's just like, no, no, no. Yeah. Just that's Craig the Critic. It doesn't matter. I'm working on desensitization at the moment. Um, or you know, particularly when I'm in the loop of shock, what's what's what's that?

SPEAKER_06 15:25

Oh, shock, attention, and resistance.

SPEAKER_05 15:27

Shock, attention, resistance. That's it. And Craig the Critic is, you know, a solid funder of attention. Oh. So like shock, you can get shock. We all get shocked. If you get shock, I get shock. It's the middle bit, the attention, and then the resistance. And Craig the Critic is the biggest cheerleader for that. See, this is important. You're not only are you scared, but this whole thing now is you're failing. So you need to give this your attention. You can't fail. You need to fix this. Oh no, no, no, no, no. It's it's it's got your hook line in Sinker.

SPEAKER_06 16:02

Yeah, that's such an important point. The fixing part. Like the criticism indicates fix this, fix this, change this, control this, get away from this. It's not just criticism idly. The criticism drives an action, and the action is usually control-based, which backfires an anxiety disorder is like what the the the what creates the disordered state itself is uh control strategies that don't work in overdrive. So the self-critical voice will always drive more attempts to control, fix this, make this better, feel different, think different, be happier, be less anxious, do more exposures, do more ERP, recover today. Am I recovering today? Did I do enough today? Am I avoiding today? It's always based on like do, do, fix, fix, change, take some action. When really we're trying to learn to do less about how we feel. It makes no sense. Those of you just got accidentally stumbling upon disorder for the first time and you're coming from sort of the general mental health or wellness community, like, these guys are talking about doing less about anxiety. Yeah, we are. That's correct. We will die on this hill. And the self-critical voice will keep demanding that you look for more things to do to fix your failure or your deficiency.

SPEAKER_05 17:08

What if you've missed something? What if you've not done enough research? Yeah. What if there's something there? Shock, attention, resistance. That's what it is. What you know that and I get that one as well. Like, you know, you need to do, you need to do more to fix yourself. Otherwise, it means you don't care. Or if you're falling for that one, have a word for you with yourself. No, no, no, no. Yeah. We I listened to two morons on a podcast that tell me to do less because actually that teaches the brain that anxiety is not important. I've said this, and my poor clients this week, I've repeated it over and over again. What are you doing today to teach the brain that anxiety is not important? Oh, great. Okay, I'll actually everything I've done has been with anxiety in mind. Every plan I make is there, is there, you know. And then Craig the Critic's been like, you know, are you sure? You know, what if you go there and you're not yourself? What if you go there and you meet people and you're not cracking jokes because you're you know, you're the funny one? What if you're not doing that? What if you can't perform? And it becomes part of that rumination, you know, and why I'd say to people is but you're giving it importance. Yeah, like anxiety with Craig the Critic, you show it it's you know, they're not important. So if Craig the Critic's criticizing you for doing something, I always say double down.

SPEAKER_06 18:40

Ah, yeah, that's exactly right. That's really good. Double down on it. Like, you really got to put your thumb in his eye, like aggressively. Like, shut up, dude. Like, this is not a throat punch to Craig the Critic. You know, that I'm comparing myself to the old version of me. So that's like intra comparison, you against you. And I think that the comparison engine is driven by the self-critical thing too. Where did I did I look and feel today like the old version of me? And then if I tried to go and face, tolerate, willfully tolerate, accept, float, whatever you want to say, I'm gonna do this thing that these people tell me is good for me. Did it turn out the way I want it to? Like it was supposed to calm me down. I was supposed to not panic. I was supposed to not have those thoughts. I was supposed to instantly relax into them and perfectly willfully tolerate, and then it would go away. But it didn't look that way. So Craig the Critic rolls in and says, that didn't turn out the way it was supposed to. So and like, no, wait a minute. That's the thing where if you're listening, and listen, I see to my practice, I know you do too. The person who gets stuck in like, but I'm doing the things, I do the things, I'm doing exposures, I'm doing it over and over, I'm pushing through over and over, nothing is changing. Look for that dude, because often it's yeah, because because he is suggesting outcomes when you challenge anxiety or face it or do exposures, and then when you don't achieve those outcomes because they were never the right outcomes to expect anyway, then he will tell you that you failed. And so that the exercise was kind of pointless. All it was was uh pushing through a bad feeling and you didn't learn anything from it.

SPEAKER_05 20:13

Also, interesting. Sorry about the sirens that seems to be all kicking off in Master today. Um they found you, that's it. It is, it's Craig the Craig sending in the police. Um these are the people that are like always say, But what do I do? If you're the person who's saying, What do I do? Am I doing it right? What's the you've got Craig the Critic going, you need to do this right, do it right, do right. And actually, just no, you're practicing, you're practicing not responding to triggers. Yeah, the exposure, the shock. There's the feeling I don't like, okay, what can I do to not engage with this, to teach the brain anxiety is not important. Well, imagine what non-anxious you would be doing and do that, simulate it if you have to, you know, and do it because you're doing a compassionate thing for yourself both in the present and for your future self. Now, the the arch nemesis of Craig the Critic is compassion, and the more that you can tap into that, the quicker you'll desensitize yourself from intrusive thoughts, panic attacks, weird feelings, somatic symptoms, and hyperfixating on how you feel.

SPEAKER_06 21:24

Yeah, I agree with that 100%. There's a cool we had Helen Bandit on, one of your old professors in university. That was episode 44, which is like almost a year ago now. Time is flying when you have fun on disordered. And she talked about compassion-focused therapy, and then I read Paul Gilbert's book. That is such good stuff because the thing I love about NCFT is the idea that you have just arrived here. So, what whatever condition you're in today, the self critical voice, Craig the Critic, is going to blame you for that condition. Like you contributed to this. You are a failure, you're too weak, you're too dumb, you're in the way, you're whatever it is. But What what if you changed what if you tried to reframe that or at least operate it under the a different story, which is I've just arrived here today. That's it. There's like a zillion years of evolution and society behind me and rules and norms and like culture and all of those things in my environment. This is not to say that, oh, you're a victim, which is I think important. We don't automatically claim victim status here, but like I just arrived here through circumstances that everyone is subject to. So let's start from there and see what we can do about that going forward. There's no sense in rehashing how you got here and why you failed. I love that part. I love that part. He also does the whole, like, well, one exercise is really cool, which you were talking about, the value of the critical voice. Yeah, we need that. It does keep us in check, but anxious people way overestimate that. I've asked people in therapy sessions, like, what would happen if I could snap my fingers and turn off your self-criticism instantly? And I've had people not even miss a beat, not even take a breath and say, I've become a monster. They don't even have to think about it. They think Craig the Critic is keeping them in check because they already see themselves as this awful monster, defective, horrible. And no, no, I need that. I need to berate myself or else I'll really be that. Wait, what? Who told you that? So it's crazy to see all how these things work and compassion, working on that self-compassion thing really does turn that ship around in a lot of ways. It's just very foreign to people, they've never been nice to themselves, they don't know how to do it.

SPEAKER_05 23:25

Yeah, and it made me realize and appreciate like when I was in the middle of my anxiety disorder, you know, I did have unconditional people around me in care. So if you're the people that are surrounded by loved ones who are putting pressure on you to air quotes, get better, they're showing their anger and frustration constantly. Don't get me wrong, they're human. It can be annoying if you know, for for some people. That's okay. But if it's if the default is to do that, you're Craig the Critic again has got allies, and that will be the voice. But you cannot criticize yourself out of an anxiety disorder.

SPEAKER_06 24:05

That's really good. You can't berate yourself out of it, you can't drive yourself. Like this isn't a character thing, like just run it, you know, like, yeah, man, berate yourself, and that will motivate you to get better. It never does. It never does.

SPEAKER_05 24:19

It never does. Um, I'd like to read a did it anyway.

SPEAKER_06 24:23

Sure, bring it.

SPEAKER_05 24:24

Okay, this is from Amir. Dear Drew and Josh, I've been listening to Disordered for about a year now since I developed panic disorder and wanted to share a Did It Anyway. In the spirit of the attitude shift, feel free to share my name, something I'd normally avoid at all costs. Thanks, Amir. I have two young daughters, one and four. And when my disorder first started, I felt completely sidelined as a parent. I was terrified to drive the kids to school or even go to the store, and avoiding stressful activities like bath time. Gradually I began opening myself up to the activities and feelings I dreaded, taking up bath time every night and going on solo outings with the girls designed to maximize stress, like taking them to Disneyland or on a long plane trip alone. These were not easy, but I knew it mattered more to me to be a good dad than to avoiding the feelings of fear and sensations of high anxiety that I had learned to hate so much. A couple of months ago, I bought a large bike trailer and started biking the girls to school and daycare. This was scary at first, but it's turned into a fun routine for the girls when they're not biting and clawing each other in the back, and a great way to work off the morning adrenaline while avoiding the insane melee of morning car drop-off. A year ago, I could not imagine navigating city traffic with two small girls in tow, but with an assist from you guys, I discovered that I'm far more capable than my worst thoughts would have me believe. P.S. Drew, you son of a bitch. That quote is from Predator, not Commando, both fine pieces of American cinema. And that was from Amir.

SPEAKER_06 26:07

Oh. Good job, Amir. And he is 100% right. You know what I want to take? We don't get credit for all that work, Amir. You did the hard stuff. What I will take credit for is Amir's massive quad now that he's just biking his daughters around the city. We're taking credit for that.

SPEAKER_05 26:27

Listen to Disorder. Not only do you feel better, you get shredded.

SPEAKER_06 26:31

Shredded, ripped like the rock level ripped. Sure, we'll promise you that. Sure. That's good.

SPEAKER_05 26:38

Brilliant. I love that one.

SPEAKER_06 26:39

I can relate to Amir's story. As a father of two daughters, I struggled the same way he did in that very same type of thing. So good job, man. I I know how hard that was. So love it. The attitude shift, by the way, I think it's one of our best episodes. That was more than two years ago. It's episode 10, if you want to go back and listen to it.

SPEAKER_05 26:54

Episode 10, yeah, it's one of the golden episodes. Uh the attitude shift there, which again is feeds into today's episode. Yeah. Why am I doing this? Where's the attitude shift? And it was clear that. Also, what I loved about Amir's did it anyway is that really compassionate. Yeah. Building on what he's doing, not comparing himself to he used to do, nor all that. Just going from that square from his baseline now and building on it. And I loved it.

SPEAKER_06 27:19

Yeah, you know, we've gotten 26 minutes in, and I haven't said the word values, which has to be said if we're going to talk about Craig the Critic. You love values. I love a big values fan, like do what matters. You know, we had Russ Harris on, he talks about the act triflex, get present, open up. What are my options here? Do what matters, which aligns with do what non-anxious me would do. Well, I don't know what non-anxious me will do. Well, what's important to you? So in Amir's case, he's like, well, you know, and Craig the Critic and his anxiety were saying, like, no, no, you're not, don't do that. That's too dangerous. That's too scary. That's too hard. No, but I I value, you know, my family. I value connection. I value teaching my kids. I value blah blah. So I'm gonna move in that direction instead. So a compassionate move toward what you value is like a like a throat punch for Craig the Critic. He can't deal with it.

SPEAKER_05 28:04

Instead of you should be doing this, you're a failure. It's just a Craig Critic failure.

SPEAKER_04 28:10

It's just talk a lot. Yeah, yeah. Whiner. Yeah, yeah. It's like you shut up, man. You stink, man. You stink. You should be doing this. You're not like you used to feel. Shut up, man. You know what? Go away.

SPEAKER_06 28:21

You're right. That's a really good way. So I think often we would uh edit. You know what? If you're visualizing Craig the Critic and you are artistic, artistic and AR in some way, by all means send us a what you think Craig the Critic looks like. Like go to disorder.fm, send us an email, hello at disorder.fm. AI generated. I want to see what everybody thinks Craig the Critic looks like. But I think Craig the Critic looks like that weasley dude that hides like in the in the shadows. Like that sucked, man. Like he's not brave enough to like come out into the real world. He's always just like dart in, whisper something. Like, you stink at this. He should have been better at that. And then he like goes and hides again in the corner.

SPEAKER_03 28:58

So yeah, that's a weasely dude. It's like that knock from school. Like, yeah. I'm telling the teacher.

SPEAKER_06 29:05

Yeah, yeah. Josh took my milk money. Like Yeah, I did. Yeah, I did. That's exactly you owed it to me. You lost. Hey, you even shouldn't have bet on the Eagles. What can I tell you, kid?

SPEAKER_05 29:18

I've developed a an illegal betting ring for children. Yeah.

SPEAKER_06 29:23

In kindergarten, Josh was running numbers. So I don't know how we got there. That's ridiculous. How about an audio did it anyway before we get too silly? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

Hi, Josh and Drew. I just wanted to pop back in with a little win for you. So you played my question on episode 122. And I thought I should let you know how my first day went. So I have been completely panic-free ever since starting, which I didn't really expect to happen. I'm now six weeks into the training. It it's it has been hard. It's been it's been tricky to kind of get through it. I had one moment where I was at lunch with all my new colleagues. I think this is on the third day. And I think in my head I thought the first day was the worst, and I was gonna wait, I was waiting for it to get worse, but it didn't. So then when I had a little wobble at lunchtime, I did what you said and I did what non-anxious me would do, and I carried on talking to my colleagues. I don't remember any of it, I don't think I could even see them. But it did I came out the other side and I finished the day and I went back the day after, and it's yeah, it feels nice to be sending a women for once. Yeah, I just thought I'd let you know I'm really enjoying it, and I honestly couldn't have done it without you guys, and I I put your podcast on to every single person I come across that is struggling. So yeah, I just wanted to thank you and and let you know.

SPEAKER_06 31:05

What the hell just happened there? Come on, there we go. Our studio audience is out of mild laps there. Narcaleptic episode from the studio audience. Good job. I love the update. Like Craig the Critic will always tell you that, like, don't do this. Do not go and go back to work. Do not take that job. Don't do that training because you can't do that. That's gonna be too hard. It's too hard for you.

SPEAKER_05 31:29

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Craig the critic always says, like, just in case.

SPEAKER_06 31:36

You better bring your mints just in case. The anticipation is always worse than like the thing, almost always worse than the actual thing. This is a great illustration. Thank you for sharing this. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_05 31:47

That was so that was so lovely. Uh and brilliant. I'm so glad you're settling into the job. Well done. You've you've um exceeded your anxiety and inner critics' expectations. Um beware though. When you said I've been panic free, yeah. No, actually, you might you might get panicky again. That's also okay. That's not going backwards. You in fact, some of the the desensitization process is to is how you respond to when that happens. So you might get an adrenaline rush in work, and that's also cool. It doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong. Expect that it might happen one day.

SPEAKER_06 32:24

There was, I think, a little bit of that in there. Well, I mean, she shouldn't say she panicked, but like that moment where it's like, oh, I was eating lunch and I started to have a bit of a wild, like, this is it. This is where here's it, this is where the wheels fall off. But nope, I'm just gonna ride through that, do what not anxious me would do, and sure enough, in that situation, it sounds like a willingness to panic. People always say, Do I have to panic to recover or get better to desensitize? No, but you have to be willing to.

SPEAKER_05 32:48

Absolutely. Um, some more examples of Craig the Critic while we're here. Particularly, you've got um derealization, depersonalization, you know, like, oh, you you can't look at your kids and connect with them. I hear that quite a lot. I'm like, what use is Craig the Critic there? Um, intrusive thoughts, OCD. Maybe you've got particularly moral scrupulosity, OCD. You've probably got the loudest Craig the Critic ever. Why are you even having those thoughts? What are you? You're a crazy person, you're disgusting, blah, blah, blah. No, you're not. You're just having thoughts and your threat responses responded to them. It doesn't mean anything. In fact, your threat responses responded to them because they're the opposite of your values and beliefs. That's why it's kicking off. But you know, very loud in particular the pure OCD people, but in all anxiety disorders.

SPEAKER_06 33:38

I think it's interesting because Craig the Critic thrive leverages two important things. Like, if if Josh comes up to you on the street and makes a ridiculous assertion based on something he just believes in his bones, you would like totally like, yeah, whatever, dude, and walk away. Like, you could dismiss someone else's thoughts and someone else's.

SPEAKER_05 33:54

Why would I be doing that? You could have just said a stranger. No. Why am I accosting people on the street?

SPEAKER_06 34:00

That's what I have to deal with every week. Uh but like you would you we can easily dismiss other people's shit. If they believe things we don't believe, we'll even argue with them or just or even you know get nasty with them. Like, we can dismiss other people's thoughts and irrationality. We can see when other people being rational. If the thought comes from inside you, oh not so much. It came from inside me. That's really important. And if it comes from inside you, about you, double whammy. Super important. Clearly, we cannot question this. We must do something about this and follow this. And that's like Craig the Critic's wheelhouse. I will I'm unweasel inside your head and say bad things about you too, you, and you will believe them because it's from you, about you. You can't question that, right? No, you totally can question that. That's also just a thought in the end, right? So I love our new Craig the Critic voice.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

We need to come up with that somehow. He he used to be able to go to the supermarket and now you can't.

SPEAKER_06 34:54

You can't even do that. What's wrong with you? Yeah, the most annoying guy in the car all the time. Like, I see I see you breathing hard at this red line. You suck. You've had this for three years now.

SPEAKER_04 35:07

You can't fix yourself.

SPEAKER_06 35:08

You're never gonna get better. Why do you even bother listening to that podcast anymore?

SPEAKER_05 35:12

They're lying. Yeah, we need to. Um, we've got time for another did it in a yeah. Yeah, yeah, we have a written one. Sure.

SPEAKER_06 35:19

I would like to read this one. Let's see. Um, I would like to share a I did it anyway. For the past few weeks, I've been having a bad time with health anxiety. Somebody should write a book about that. Oh, that's right, we did. It's coming out soon. Um, I've also had some agoraphobia. Part of the anxiety was due to an upcoming role, uh, role-related fitness test to join the fire service. Okay, stressful. The day of the test, I felt awful. I was getting PVCs every other beat and having panic attacks in the car. All the way there, I was thinking about turning around and giving up on my dream job. I broke everything down into little steps. The first was just to arrive and to walk from the car park to the station, etc. In the end, I not only completed all the tests, but have since found out that I passed them and moved to the next stage. Thank you for the great podcast. It's been invaluable in teaching me how to reframe my anxiety. Oh, that's so good. That is a perfect example. If you're listening this morning or today, whenever you're listening, and you feel like, but how am I supposed to do this when my heart is racing and I my legs are shaking, and Craig the Critic is like, you've been in your home? This isn't gonna work. This person did a fire surface physical fitness test while like freaking out having PVCs and like, yeah, now a firefighter. So, like, was that an accurate prediction of disaster? No, it wasn't.

SPEAKER_05 36:35

No, uh yeah, your brain is a prediction making machine and it sucks. It's terrible, it's awful at it.

SPEAKER_06 36:42

It doesn't, it's so funny because it doesn't need to be accurate, it just needs to be believable. It's super lazy. Like, all it wants to do is come up with a a story that you can believe. It doesn't even care if it's right. Come on, man. We'll catch you better than that. But it's great, did it anyway. I love it. Very good.

SPEAKER_05 36:58

Thank you, Drew. Um, I would like to express that, Drew. No matter how you feel, you have value. Uh and I express to any listeners, no matter how you feel, no matter where you're are in life, where you're not optimum, you're not at the ideal place, you still have value and you still are, you know, always reserve compassion for yourself because you deserve it 24-7.

SPEAKER_06 37:23

Oh, very good. That's a very, very nice message. Good way to end the episode. So uh, if you guys have been following along with us on social media, I'm the anxious truth. Josh is uh anxiety Josh, also known as Anxiety Josh. That's why I should introduce you to anybody like, hey, this is my friend Josh, also known as Anxiety Josh. Oh, I do that all the time. Yeah, like in every social event. He's unbearable, he really is. And what else? Thank you for all the cool reviews on the podcast. If you're listening on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or one of those places, like the reviews are cool. Keep them coming. We appreciate you guys. And what else can we tell them? Anything good? Oh, I haven't heard that in a while. Yeah, that red tail hawk slash eagle.

SPEAKER_05 38:04

Red tailed hawk named eagle.

SPEAKER_06 38:05

Oh, you ornotho or anxious ornithologists out there waiting to call us out. We know it's not an eagle. We know.

SPEAKER_05 38:14

Thanks, thanks, guys. We'll catch you next Friday.

SPEAKER_06 38:16

Yeah, we'll be back. See you later.