Inside The Mind of an Anxiety Therapist (Episode 53)

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Levi is uh a very scary man, and therapists get anxiety too. I wanted to show that everyone can go to therapy, and Levi's a caricature of someone who perhaps doesn't want to go to therapy, maybe left it to the last moment.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

I often ask clients, what do you do to look after yourself? I'm a huge advocate of caring for the self. Why wouldn't I be? I'm a therapist, I care about people, and it's important. Unfortunately, though, in my opinion, this term has been hijacked, misused, and turned into a multi-million dollar industry that often taps into our insecurities, fears, and perfectionism.

SPEAKER_01 0:35

If you have anxiety and you want to know what happens in the mind of an anxiety therapist as he works with four clients with different anxiety disorders, you're gonna love this. And we've got a special treat for you today. And I'm Joshua Fletcher, also known as Anxiety Josh, author, podcaster, and anxiety therapist specializing in anxiety disorders, based in Manchester in the UK, and author of the book. And how does that make you feel? Author is the most important part. So it certainly is. Is today. The book is out. The one I've been pontificating and banging on about is out. And how does that make you feel? The critics are loving it. The people who have read it so far have left some wonderful reviews. If you have anxiety and you want to know what happens in the mind of your name of an anxiety therapist as he works with four clients with different anxiety disorders, you're gonna love this. And we've got a special treat for you today.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Oh, it's gonna be good. Before we get into that, the special treat, and it is a treat. Let's do a little community celebration. Let's do a did it anyway. This one is tattoo related. So if anybody has actually seen me on social media, you know that I have a vested interest in tattoos. Let's do it.

SPEAKER_00 2:12

Hi, Josh and Drew. My name is Moran, and I wanted to tell you something that I accomplished just yesterday. Um, two weeks ago, I scheduled an appointment to get a tattoo I've been contemplating for a very, very long time for my anxiety recovery, as well as just um I had lost a family member to suicide. So leading up to yesterday, which was the appointment, um I got four hours of sleep. I was literally panicking all day. One positive, I did not have my full-on panic attack. I did not have my dry eaves. So I was working through it. Um, it was still very uncomfortable. So many symptoms, so many feelings, but I made it to the appointment. And someone who literally hates blood draws was doing this. And I made it through. I it was not hard at all. I didn't focus on my symptoms. Um, and I have an amazing piece on my arm now to be able to share my story with other people um and just show myself again that I can do this, and I have done it, I will do it again. And just thank you so much for the encouragement that you give everybody every day.

SPEAKER_01 3:35

Good Lauren. That's amazing. You show off that tattoo, it's brilliant. Uh, Drew shows off his carpe dm tattoo all the time.

SPEAKER_02 3:45

I do not have a carpe dm tattoo, but I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Maybe I should. I'm not no judgment here.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Sure, it's a judgment-free zone. Good job, Lauren. And like, yeah, definitely enjoy that. And if you want us like send a picture of your Ink in or whatever, we'd uh email us from disorder.fm. Let's see the trophy, man.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

Yeah, well done. Well done with all the anxiety that comes with it as well. Well done. It's outstanding.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

So let's get to our special treat. What are we gonna do today? I'm in your hands today.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

We're gonna you're going to have a special, very short segment, table reading from the book that is out, starring two of Hollywood's greatest voice actings. Oh dear God. Uh yeah, uh, I'm gonna just read to you some segments from the book. Drew and I are gonna do it. We're gonna pick out some of our favorite bits. And how does that make you feel? It documents behind the scenes of my anxiety practice, and there are four uh client case studies. The clients have um obviously been anonymized and scrambled and things like that, so no one is identifiable, but there are certain things that jump out in my practice, and I wanted to show the world actually, you know, how you should kind of work with anxiety, and I'm gonna we're gonna start with the introduction of one of my favourite characters called Levi. And Levi is uh a very scary man, and and therapists get anxiety too. Uh, so we're gonna start with that. Welcome to the table reading. And how does that make you feel? Chapter 2. Levi. As the elevator doors opened, a massive, intimidating man stretched his hand out to me. I met his handshake and allowed him to compress my bones and tendons to within an atom's space of each other. I tried not to show how much this hurt. An old shame of mine derived from a lifetime of growing up revering emotionless masculinity. Alright, pal, I'm Levi. Anxiety. This guy is scary. Hi, Levi, welcome to my practice. Come with me, I'll show you which room I'm in. I walked down the corridor alongside this giant and noticed an array of tattoo art over his forearm and neck. Some were faded, but the tattoo on his forearm was fresh, still covered in cling fill. Levi walked with authority, but with an air of, well, I supposed I must, resignation, like a bouncer walking over to a young lad he's about to eject from the bar. Analytical. I can see he's clenching and unclenching his fists. Critic, he's taking up so much space. You're going to end up mashed against the wall. Empathy. He must be nervous. And people displayed nerves in different ways. It's not personal. We stepped into my office and I gestured for Levi to take a seat.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

Which chair do you sit in?

SPEAKER_01 6:40

I usually sit in the one next to the window, but feel free to sit wherever you like.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Yeah, I think I'll have your seat.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Analytical. A power move. Detective, he feels threatened. Yeah, sure. Feel free to take some cushions, make yourself comfy. Levi sank himself into my chair and s and slid low, so that he was almost lying down. He clasped his hands over his stomach and rolled his head to gaze out the window. He clearly wasn't comfortable, but was trying his best to convey the message that he didn't feel threatened in the slightest.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

So, like when are you gonna start reading my mind? You're gonna tell me what all my problems are because Daddy didn't hug me, right?

SPEAKER_01 7:20

It doesn't quite work like that. I can't read minds, unfortunately. A psychotherapist's main job is to listen and provide a safe space. Irreverence. It's always the parents. Analytical. Perhaps detective. We obviously need to know more. Will you guys shut up? Levi got back to his feet and began to walk around the office. He started to pick up objects from my giant IKEA shelving unit and hold them up to the light. What's this? That's a little sculpture of a buffalo I picked up in Zambia when I was younger. Why have you got it in here? Are you trying to show off your gap ear? Detective, he's trying to intimidate you. Escapist. I really want to get out of here. Compassion. You've got this, just carry on. It's more of a reminder for me that I have overcome my own fears and challenges. He glanced at me, raising an eyebrow while turning the sculpture in his hands.

SPEAKER_02 8:15

Yeah, that, and I bet you thought it looks good in this fancy office. I know pretense when I see it.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

Analytical. Use this as an inroad into starting a personal dialogue. Are you good at spotting pretense?

SPEAKER_02 8:39

You can easily spot those with money and those on, well, let's say borrowed money.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

He sat down.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

I'm head of security at Seneca, biggest and oldest nightclub in the northern district, man. Glorified doorman, bouncer of the bouncers. He glanced out of the window. Fourteen years I've been there. The stuff I've seen you wouldn't believe.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

I know it fairly well.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

I spent time there on student nights back when I was studying. Yeah, well, I don't remember you. Don't expect me to. I see thousands of faces of every week. Thousands of drunken, piled-up faces. Did you ever get chucked out? Uh thankfully not. Oh, good job you didn't. We don't do this anymore. But years ago there was an alley we took behave misbehaving clientele to if they caused trouble inside the club. We called it the concrete court, which was this hidden dark area behind some bins where swift justice was served on those who were wrong who wronged. We also confiscated illicit materials in the um name of, you know, public safety.

SPEAKER_01 9:40

Detective. Something tells me those drugs were not handed in to the police. Sounds like a lot of responsibility.

SPEAKER_02 9:48

Well, you can't do a lot of that vigilante sweet justice stuff anymore. This new generation is pretty much untouchable. It used to be that a quick roughing up of someone misbehaving meant they never did anything bad again, but now every night we're the ones on trial. Trial by social media, all because we didn't get a bloomin' pronoun correct when asking for ID. Can't call someone love without being able to, what's it called, a misogynist?

SPEAKER_01 10:12

Levi paused. Despite feeling anxious, I decided to model a relaxed posture in the hope he would mirror it. Surprisingly, it seemed to work. He took a deep breath. So how did this work then, this therapy stuff? Empathy. It's hard to lower your guard when you feel threatened. Compassion. Well done, Levi. Anxiety. Still shitting ourselves here, lad. It depends on each person, really. I always suggest using the first session for us to get to know each other and hear what you'd like to help with. Together, and only if you'd like to, we can paint a picture of what's going on, and we can work together to map out a way forward. All in a safe, confidential space. Levi looked at me with what seemed like a mixture of intrigue and frustration. Suddenly, from nowhere, he snapped.

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Well, of course it's safe. I mean, how would it not be safe? It's not as if you're gonna attack me, is it?

SPEAKER_01 11:06

I mean, for fuck He stopped and immediately diverted his aggression into standing up again and walking over to the window. He sighed and looked down at the street below.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

I uh I didn't mean to swear. I hate swearing.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Empathy. He probably hears it all the time. It's okay. You probably hear it all the time. Yeah, it's pretty vile. I noticed that my anxiety level lowered the more I spoke to Levi. It's natural to be anxious with any new client due to the unknown. I still felt uneasy, but the more I observed and listened, the more I could see a man who was burdened with an inner conflict. I respected him for being here, willing to face it. Intuition. Allow some quiet to fill the space. After staring out the window, lost in thought, Levi walked over to my desk. I remained seated and patiently waited for him to re-engage. He seemed calmer. Despite that, I still found him terrifying. He loomed over my desk and started to adjust the cling film that was wrapped around his fresh tattoo. You have tattoos? Just the one. Cool, what is it? It's an Irish Gaelic phrase that means protection of the gods upon my brother.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

Are you religious? No, not really. Okay, then why do you have religious scripture on you?

SPEAKER_01 12:29

Because I was 18 and thought I was cool. It also placated my very Catholic grandmother. Analytical. Be careful not to share so much of yourself. You're here for him, not you. Intuition. Go with it. He asked. Levi remained facing my desk, his back toward me.

SPEAKER_02 12:47

This new tattoo is my favorite. Mal did a great job on it. I noticed it when you arrived. What does it represent? It represents Gaunab, death personified, the embodiment of evil. It's from Southwestern African mythology.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

He paused and glanced at his raised arm. I mean he really got the shading spot on. Detective. I wonder why he's got such morose imagery tattooed upon his skin. Analytical. Hmm. Tattoos don't always have to contain deep meaning. Irreverence. Remember the Carpe DM tattoo on that girl in college? Is there an inspiration behind it? Levi dropped his arm to his side and locked his gaze on my desk lamp. He still had his back to me. I remained quiet and, as weird as it sounds, I'm sure I could hear the spinning cogs of his intense thinking. It appeared I'd asked an absolute cog whirler.

SPEAKER_02 13:46

I uh I like the symbol.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

From what seemed like out of nowhere, I could hear some gentle tapping on the desk. But Levi's arms remained by his side. I could only see his back, which was making a gentle, stuttered, convulsing motion. Then it hit me. The tapping on the desk wasn't coming from his fingers, but from the falling tears. Levi was crying. The big scary man who emerged from the elevator was now silently sobbing. Compassion. He's got a lot going on here. I feel for a saviour. I'm gonna find out what's troubling him and take it all away. Levi made no move to dab his tears. He let them flow from his face, and I did not intervene. He seemed to need this space, and I let him have it.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

And scene. Tell me about Levi. What made you write it?

SPEAKER_01 14:49

I wanted to show that everyone can go to therapy, and Levi's uh someone maybe a uh a caricature of someone who perhaps doesn't want to go to therapy, maybe left it to the last moment. Um within the book, you follow Levi's progress as well as three other people. Uh there is a Hollywood uh actress who comes to see me, a doctor, and um a young man with a secret to tell. But I just thought I'd introduce you to one of the characters, which is Levi. Uh, as you know, Drew and I like a rant, um, which uh go through the book, intersperse throughout the book, um, as being an anxiety therapist. Um, and we'll read a couple of excerpts about that um if you'd like to hear them.

SPEAKER_02 15:35

Yeah, which one do you want to go to?

SPEAKER_01 15:36

Uh I like oh well, there's one I wrote about self-care. This is one that we often kind of um restrain ourselves from talking about, but I thought I'd put it in a mass-produced book instead.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Good idea. Good thinking. Um yeah, sure, we could do that. There's a chat, a little bit of a blurb on self-care. Do you want me to read this one? I will read it in my most irreverent interpretation because I know that's how you wrote it. And so today, the part of Josh Fletcher will be paid by Drew Hensilata. Uh self-care. I often ask clients, what do you do to look after yourself? And I'm frequently met with a confused expression. It's not surprising as we're constantly bombarded, whether from the news or social media, with information about what we should be doing for our overall wellness. A vague platitude excreted from the popular sphere is the concept of self-care. I'm a huge advocate of caring for the self. Why wouldn't I be? I'm a therapist. I care about people, and it's important. Unfortunately, though, in my opinion, this term has been hijacked, misused, and turned into a multi-million dollar industry that often taps into our insecurities, fears, and perfectionism. If you type self-care into social media, you will be greeted by a montage of contemporary cliches, usually involving some orgasmically swooning over a live bacteria yogurt, practicing meditation atop a mountain in front of a meticulously placed 4K camera, thrusting chiseled abs into your face while drinking a kale smoothie, or smugly hiking through nature behind a tenuously linked quote from the Dalai Lama. And let's not forget the ambiguous quotes about boundaries and letting go sketched upon a pastel meme. When I see clients who want some help with self-care for their anxieties, I often see that they're coming from a reactionary place instead of a personal one. I've lost count of the number of times I have heard. I've tried mindfulness, yoga, tai chi, cutting out gluten, keeping a gratitude journal, breath work, CBD oil, mantras, etc., and none of it works. Hey, these methods can all be great ways to practice self-care and a great preventative approach for mental health, but none of them are instant medicine for what we are feeling and trying to fix. And they also don't work for everyone. If you're doing something to stimulate self-care rather than live it, then your self-care won't be effective. This is forcing self-care and not being yourself, like a person who forces themselves to run every morning but hates it. Full disclosure, I have fallen into this trap myself for many, many years. Thank you. Thank you. I'd like to thank the Academy.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 18:15

How did I get paid a huge amount of money to narrate this book?

SPEAKER_01 18:17

Yeah, yeah, sure. Okay. I'll slip you 10 pounds and a packet of crisps.

SPEAKER_02 18:23

I love this, by the way. This is a good ramp, but it's accurate. It's funny, but it is out there.

SPEAKER_01 18:28

It's a self-help book that's stealth help book, I think, is what is what they they they call it. Would would you ever want to know what your therapist was thinking?

SPEAKER_02 18:39

100% would want to know what my therapist was thinking. Yeah, 100%. I I think well, I find it fascinating. You know what? Let me let me change that. When I was in the midst of it, I would probably only want to hear that my therapist was super concerned about me and like ready to solve my problem, but it would be so much more helpful to know what they were actually thinking.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah, I don't know. Because like back in when I was like in the midst of my OCD, and uh one of the characters in this book does have OCD with themes that are very taboo that you don't hear you see a lot in the mainstream media. And the reason why you hear a lot of these internal voices that you may have heard through our reading, which is analytical, compassion, critic, irreverence, empathy, to name a few, is that I want to show that actually there is an unconditional nature to it. Yes, we're thinking things, but we're trying to think the best for you as the client, and it doesn't matter what you bring, even with the spicy taboo themes, and I've had these intrusive thoughts, then they're they're nasty, but also I understand the nature of anxiety and uh uh and OCD and things like that, and so I wanted to show actually this is what your anxiety therapist is thinking during this. It's not just one voice of judgment, you know, or but there is that savior voice that comes up, and it sounds to me back when you were struggling, Drew, it was like, I'm gonna save you, and I have all the answers.

SPEAKER_02 20:03

Yeah, you're right. That's actually really good. And I love the savior voice throughout the book because yeah, I think a struggling person wants to hear that voice, like, oh good, he's gonna fix me or she's gonna fix me. But what's really cool about this is I think in the end, it also helps you understand the thought process as you're relating to a client and listening to their presenting issues and figuring out how are you gonna help and support them. It can really help somebody who's reading understand why you connect or not connect with a given therapist. The personality comes into it, you know, the actual person that's in the room with you. To me, this book is a really great, almost a tongue-in-cheek and really interesting and funny guide to like, well, this is one of the reasons why you might or might not connect with a given therapist, and why you might have to try a couple of different therapists and what actually is going on in the room? It's really helpful, I think. It's actually educational.

SPEAKER_01 20:53

How many times do we get asked, like, I don't know if this is the right therapist for me? I mean, how important is the mode? We spoke a bit about this in the past podcast, but how important is it if you are seeking therapy, particularly for your anxiety disorder or your excessive anxiety? How important is the modality to match with being anxiety disorder informed?

SPEAKER_02 21:16

Oh, it's very I think it's very important, but I also think it's just as important for the therapist to have those sort of person-centered principles in place and and honestly act authentically in the room so you know who you're dealing with. That's a big deal, right? That's that Carl Rogers thing. I'm on the Carl Rogers bandwagon, I'm with you on it now. Yeah, I got a book sitting here that I got to crack open and start reading. But like the that inner voice that you use throughout the book really shows that. No, no, the therapy, yes, it's specializing in anxiety disorders, but also this person is is showing up as really themselves. Your client knows who you are and they know that you're here to actually support them as best you can as another human being.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

And I exactly when you're reading about therapy modalities as well, it can be very boring. It's interesting if you're training to be a therapist, but if you're someone who's struggling with anxiety, you ain't got time for that. And it's not interesting. You just, when you see a therapist, you just hope that they have the answers. So in this book, I talk about modalities very tongue-in-cheek. Do you want to hear a little excerpt? Oh, yeah. You gotta read that one now. This is from the chat called The Modality Wars. The only difference between a psychotherapist and a counselor is that psychotherapist has five syllables and sounds way cooler. It's why psychotherapist is plastered all over my website, as opposed to peasanty counselor. Either way, both can be called a therapist. So next time you see someone call themselves a psychotherapist, just know they're as pretentious as me. Therapists are some of the most amazing people I have ever met, both personally and professionally. However, they can also be nauseatingly self-righteous and annoying. Yes, that includes me. There's a lot about the world of therapists that the general public doesn't know about, but we exist in numbers and in collectives, usually found impulsively spending money that we don't have on new training, or trying not to be too counsellory when interacting with loved ones. Let me invite you to peek into the mysterious staff room where we all congregate, smoke cigars, and scheme against our clients. We don't really. Smoking is bad for you. And then carrying on a little bit later on in this in this chat part. Training in any modality requires you to give your all to this way of practice. But in doing so, it can create a whole world of cognitive dissonance when trying to view the world in a different way, especially through the lens of another modality. Drew and I often see anxiety disorders through the lens of CBT and third wave CBT. A lot of therapy training providers are run by passionate and inspiring modality purists who believe that the most psychological suffering can be solved using the one therapeutic approach in which they personally trained and are emotionally invested. For example, someone trained in the psychodynamic approach would most likely believe that the works of Carl Jung and Melanie Klein should be used to explore the unconscious processes that underpin behavior. In brackets, stop trying to shag your mum and dad. Whereas therapists who train in Carl Rogers' person-centered approach, yeah Carl Rogers, believe that the core purpose of therapy is for the therapist to facilitate the client's ability to self-actualise. And in brackets, I'm going to sit here and say nothing until you speak. Cognitive behavioral therapy, CBT, Becky in a third wave, contrasts heavily with person-centred by offering to deal with problems by focusing on current thoughts, feelings, and patterns in behaviors. Let's conceptualize your suffering into numbers for my computer. Anyone who's had a NHS in the UK can relate to that. Then you've got transactional analysis, which looks at stances on intimacy and conflict. Brackets. Whatever is in flavor of that year. But yeah, I mean if you want to hear more of that absolute irreverence, which is interspersed between the stories of my four clients, then give it a read. I really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_02 25:52

The younger games is I mean, it's just genius. Sorry. It is. Josh is my friend, but that is just so funny.

SPEAKER_01 25:59

I volunteer! I volunteer! I volunteer is a tribute. Because I actually talk about integrative therapists who are trained in different modalities. So we actually don't take part in the younger games. We sit in our high towers. Life coaches curl up as footstools. We put our feet on the life coaches and sit from goblets while we watch modality purists kill each other. It's fantastic. Obviously, it's sensationalized if I didn't make that clear, but it just gives you an overview of therapy. It's a bit different. You don't make sure you to know about what your therapist is trained in and if they're informed about your OCD, your agrophobia, things like that.

SPEAKER_02 26:38

Yeah, yeah, love it. And those meads are full, uh, the goblets are full of mead, right? They have to, it has to be mead.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Oh, heart back to an old episode.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Oh, ouch. Shots were fired here, man. That's okay, though. It's a it's you know, that that chapter did make me laugh when I read it, read it for sure. And the younger games. Again, I'm just gonna repeat. It's genius. Thank you, thank you very much.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Thank you. Uh, you can get the book um all good bookstores, I think. You can get it on Amazon. Um, it's a it's available in your it's sold to 11, 12 countries at the moment, but the translation rights are on the way. It's gonna be uh translated into um German, um Brazilian. I think uh I'm not sure if it's gone to Spain yet. Um it's gonna be um translated to Korean, Chinese, um, and there's a few others as well. Uh Europe in Europe as well, uh Czech. Um yeah, and hopefully those translation things will keep coming through. But yeah, I hope you really enjoy it.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

Love it. That's really great. If you want to um if you want a shortcut, just go to uh disorder.fm slash five three. That's this episode, and I'll make sure there's a link there so you can find the book.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

But it's pretty general. Please feel free to message and let me know what you thought of it. Unless it's negative, then I don't want to hear it. But if you really my crack the critic is already loud. I feel so vulnerable releasing this book, but I know that it will reach the people that need it.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

Yeah, please let me echo that. Do not send Josh a negative thing because then my phone is gonna ring. And I'm just tired. No, no, they said it was stupid. They said it was stupid, dude. Uh no, it's good. It's real, it's a good book. I read it, and you know, Josh and my friend, so I'm clearly biased in my my podcast partner, but I I think it's also as educational as it is just interesting. So there's stuff in you guys for sure. Not an anxiety manual.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

But there's a lot of stealth out, talk about panic attacks in there, talk about um little bits of Bob's depression, self-esteem anxiety. One of the clients has panic uh panic attacks and agrophobia, and a very loud Craig the Critic, uh, who's also been who's also been through trauma, one of them has severe OCD, uh, one of them just has just gone through a lot and believes that they have to perform constantly and they don't know who they are when they're not people pleasing. Um, and one of them lives with a dark secret, you know, and and the struggles with depression. So if you want to go check that out, please do. And just to reiterate, these client case studies are been scrambled and anonymized. It's gone through a rigorous ethical screening process and legal consultation. Any therapist listening, don't be like, this is I actually say this in the book, this is heresy. What is he doing? He's breaking confidential. No, this has been a project that's been going on for years and it has the continued blessing and support from everyone involved in the book.

SPEAKER_02 29:42

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And if you are in therapy or looking for a therapist, don't take this as like, oh no, end up in a book. No, you know, divulging my therapist is gonna write a book about me. No, it's not the way that works. So glad you mentioned that. Um, I guess before we wrap up the episode, let's end with a question. We'll take a question from the community. This one, I'm not gonna use the person's name because uh did not uh give us permission to do that. So the question here is Hydrew and Josh, can you provide some hints? My partner is very angry with my anxiety and doesn't understand why I can't just get over it. It's making me worse. I have no friends or family in this country. Any suggestions? Thank you very much for your podcast.

SPEAKER_01 30:24

What do you think, dude? You deserve compassion and understanding. Um not only have you got to go through feeling anxious, which feels horrible in itself, as we know, uh having an actual Craig the Critic in human form is only gonna add stress. Um I it's made more difficult because you probably feel alone in another country and you're having this partner here, and you feel the pressure to not show that you're struggling. Um it's a tricky one, and what we say is that you don't deserve that. And if this someone's you know your partner, and see if you can have a dialogue where it's like, hold on, you know, this is what we're going through now. We answered a similar question to this a couple of episodes back, and it's about like where's the middle ground? Like, yeah, okay, it it can evoke feelings in people and you feel frustrated and and you and you lot and because you love your partner, etc. But I I think you deserve empathy and and and compassion. And if you're not getting that in a relationship, then that's you know, that's I'm sad for you.

SPEAKER_02 31:34

Yeah, I agree with that. I think the other thing that I might add is it maybe it's possible to have a conversation where you can provide your partner with some resources, like this podcast or the the old panic pod podcast Josh used to do, or or The Anxious Truth, which is my podcast. I'll quick plug for that. Episode 49 of The Anxious Truth is literally called How Can I Make My Family Understand Light Anxiety? It's probably six years old now, but I do talk about maybe how you can explain it to them because this person doesn't get it that you can't just get over it. It doesn't work that way. Sometimes it helps to hear sort of expert or trained voices say, no, no, I know you think they should be able to get to it because you know they're safe and that you don't understand why they can't understand that themselves, but that's not how brains work. Let us explain it to you. I found that that has been pretty helpful.

SPEAKER_01 32:19

There's an earlier episode of Disordered we did as well, I think, about they just don't get it. I can't remember which number it's. Do you remember episode 49 off the top of your head? All right. I had to let that out a bit.

SPEAKER_02 32:30

No, I I literally do not know that. Um, I the only I you know I hate to do this sort of stuff on Disorder too, but I also did a uh workshop called Anxiety Explain for Friends and Family. If you go to theanxioustruth.com, you can check that out. That's two workshop on it.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

So yeah, go check it out and do it with maybe it's something you could do with your partner. So yeah, that's how I designed that perfect button. You know, that sounds perfect. Uh, and if they don't engage with that, then you know you'd have some questions to ask yourself there, I think.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

For sure. Great question. Thanks everybody for uh sending in your did it anyways and your questions. You can do that at disordered.fm. We listen to you or read most of them, if not all of them. We can't unfortunately get them all in the air, but we do enjoy hearing from you guys, whatever you have to say. Of course, you should be following us on social media. Uh Josh is anxietyjosh. I am the.anxious.truth on Instagram, or just search for the anxious truth. It's kind of everywhere.

SPEAKER_01 33:24

Thank you so much, Drew, and good luck and enjoy the book if you ever choose to read it.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

Absolutely. We'll see you guys next week.

SPEAKER_01 33:30

We're out.