Did It Anyway! - Round 1 (Episode 024)

SPEAKER_00 0:01

I just wanted to share with you guys a did it anyway. I just dealt with it, went to the doctor, had to get an emergency shot. I didn't Google anything. I just did it. Was I anxious? Yes. Was I as anxious as I thought I would be? Certainly, certainly not.

SPEAKER_02 0:15

This person says I wanted to share one of my bigger wins lately. My family and I flew to Costa Rica, drove about three hours into the jungle, and stayed there for 10 days. Of course, I had moments of uncomfortability, but with willful tolerance slash surrendering, I actually really enjoyed myself the whole trip and was so glad that I went.

SPEAKER_03 0:35

I want to share a did it anyway that I nailed today. Boom! The flood of adrenaline hits me and I begin to panic. I decided to put the phone away and embrace the uncertainty, despite my amygdala screaming at me that it might be dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 0:52

Welcome to Disordered. This is episode 24 of the podcast entitled Did It Anyway, Round One. I am Drew Linsolata, one of the co-hosts of Disordered. I am a graduate student in clinical mental health counseling, a therapist and trainer, an author on the topic of anxiety and anxiety disorders, and I guess a podcaster because here I am.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

And I'm Joshua Fletcher, also known as Anxiety Josh on social media. I'm a qualified psychotherapist based in the UK, and I specialize in anxiety disorders and pontificate about myself as much as Drew does.

SPEAKER_02 1:27

It's our specialty. That's why everybody's here. So today we're doing our first in our planned series of Did It Anyway episodes. If you guys follow the podcast, you know we're big into Did It Anyway, hashtag did it anyway, success stories and wins. And once in a while we'll do one of these where we we go through a bunch of them because so many are you guys have sent in so many, it's so great to hear them all. And uh we'll talk through them. We'll talk about what you know, where the wins were, uh any changes. We'll sort of go through them and use them as encouragement and inspiration and education.

SPEAKER_03 1:59

Yeah, we were just talking beforehand, and uh, you know, it's so wonderful to hear what people are doing, they're taking on on board what we say, or what their therapists tell them, or what the kind of you know, the the counseling literature says. Um particularly when we look at exposures, you know, it requires you to do a difficult, courageous thing. Um there's a a variety of did it anyways today. Um yeah, we're gonna uh talk through them, uh celebrate them and analyze them because we want to celebrate, you know, the the little kind of disordered community that we've got going on here. Um and also let you know that we do love reading um the emails and listening to the voice uh notes. So yeah, um, if you want some inspiration, some motivation, if you're feeling a bit stuck, you can listen to some of your peers today. And uh yeah, I can't wait to uh to read through them.

SPEAKER_02 2:49

Yeah, it's gonna be great. I think before we get started, just a just a quick reminder. Sometimes these can be really inspiring and can give you hope when you're in a little bit of a dark place. Sometimes they can make you feel a little badly because maybe you're not there. Just remember that every one of the people who shared a did it anyway with us today thought they couldn't do it. Every one of them. And any all recovered people were in places where they thought they couldn't do it and it wasn't happening. So be careful about it's Craig the critic. Because, you know, if you're gonna take this as like, oh, I feel bad because I'm not winning, everybody started there. It's okay.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

Absolutely. There'll be no comparisons. That's the rule. If you're gonna listen to this episode, do not compare yourself to celebrate the fact that these people step into fear. Some uh conventionally um the term isn't small, but you know, so some people might conventionally group them into small wins and big wins on this episode and this podcast, and using this philosophy, they're all big wins. So yeah, I can't wait to get started. Um, we're gonna start with a voicemail. This is one I picked out, um, and I I I loved it. I mean, I love them all, but yeah, this this is the one that we're gonna start with. All right, let's go. Here we go.

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Hey Drew and Josh, my name is Haley from New Jersey. I have GAD and also some OCD tendencies. I just wanted to share with you guys a did it anyway. I actually have a lot lately, thank you, in part to you guys. So I had a crazy thing happen to me the other day where a dog bit me in the face. And normally I would be doom scrolling. You know, what does this mean? Do I have rabies? I didn't Google anything, I didn't Google MD myself out of it. I just dealt with it, went to the doctor, you know, had to get an emergency shot, which I normally I would be Google MDing that. You know, what are the side effects? I didn't Google anything, I just did it. Was I anxious? Yes. Was I as anxious as I thought I would be? Certainly, certainly not. And that is in part to your guys' help and your content. And Josh, your intrusive thought guide truly helped me out during a confusing and crazy time in my life and really helped me understand what was going on in my brain. And I truly appreciate you guys so much. I listen to you guys, you know, every week. You guys help calm my brain, and I don't even have like race brain anymore, or whatever you guys call it. Um, my brain's not racing anymore. I'm able to accept what's going on, I'm able to understand. So I truly, truly appreciate it. And I will be sharing more. Did it anyways? Thanks so much.

SPEAKER_02 5:21

Oh, that's great.

SPEAKER_00 5:23

Love that.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Uh no, uh, what do our studio audience think of that?

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Oh, they're huge fans, they always are.

SPEAKER_03 5:30

Absolutely. Matthew McConnell is back in again. He cannot resist. No, um, well done, Haley. That was absolutely brilliant. Uh, what I like is that you you could see the pattern of your own reactions to these events, and you decide to step away and go, hold on, maybe I should kind of lean into some uncertainty here. This is the usual pattern of what I do. And no, I didn't. I went and did it. And what the biggest thing I took from that is that you realize, hopefully, and still do realize, Haley, that the anticipation or the anticipatory anxiety never matches the reality. Uh, well done. You did so many brave things there, and you know, we were super proud of you.

SPEAKER_02 6:13

Yeah, well done. I I love how in this situation, you know, unfortunately, bitten by a dog. I hope that's worked out for you clearly. But uh, you know, it was a real thing. This wasn't like a hypothetical my brain made up of fear. Yeah, you there could be complications there. There's a you know, an injection where there could be side effects. So Haley was in the middle of actual real potential things, and she played the odds. She allowed probability to be her god.

SPEAKER_03 6:39

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And also, like bad things do happen. You know, you you're you're burden by a dog. But what I'm hearing and what I hear heard from that is that I was afraid that it would spiral my disordered anxiety out of control. This event would would might make my disordered anxiety take over, and it did not, and it did not prevent you from doing what you you know what what you should do, the healthy things that you should do. Um excellent. Also, you don't don't have brain race anymore and stuff. So someone's been uh taking on board the nonsense that we say on here. So that really I I love listening to that. I think it was absolutely uh brilliant, and we appreciate you sharing that.

SPEAKER_02 7:20

Thank you. And thank you so much for the kind words, they were very nice. We appreciate it.

SPEAKER_03 7:25

Yeah. What have you got on your end, Drew? Come on, let's play. Let's let's are we like football analysts like on the sports channel? We're gonna analyze each play here.

SPEAKER_02 7:35

I feel like I should have a pen in my hand and a giant gold ring because they all of those guys are always wearing you guys have championship rings over there like we have for American football. You win this? We don't have ridiculous ring, huge ring that no one would ever wear. But they're the most American thing I've ever heard. But we do.

SPEAKER_04 7:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:52

So yeah, we're go back and forth. We have another we have another voicemail, but we'll also do some of the emails that were sent in. So I want to do one.

unknown 7:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Uh this person says I wanted to share one of my bigger wins lately. In October, I was too scared to fly an hour away to my cousin's wedding due to a fear of not being close to immediate medical attention, even though I'm very healthy. And I missed out on it. Fast forward to a month ago, my family and I flew to Costa Rica, which is a four and a half hour flight for this person, drove about three hours into the jungle, and stayed there for 10 days. Alrighty then. Of course, I had moments of uncomfortability, but with willful tolerance slash surrendering, I actually really enjoyed myself the whole trip and was so glad that I went. It really sparked my love for travel again, and we were already planning where we want to go next. Thank you guys for changing my mindset with anxiety. Very well done. Another round of applause.

SPEAKER_03 8:44

Love it. Superb. Uh, we really lovely. Um, it reminds me of that time in the episode, Drew, where you were talking about, you know, the feeling of needing to be rescued. What a great exposure to do that, to not only fly and go into the jungle and go away from these sources of of rescue, um, but then end up enjoying it because you were teaching that the amygdala, hey, you know, I don't need rescuing here just because it feels like I need to be rescued. Yep. Um, I don't know. Talk us through that, Drew. Why is that so great?

SPEAKER_02 9:21

I think it's so great because in this situation, I'm not sure where this person is from, possibly one of the more westernized countries. So, yes, it would feel like such a huge risk. I'm going to Costa Rica, so you know, a more Caribbean, Central American type country. What if they don't have hospitals like we have? I mean, I know that's what would go through my head, you know, and now I'm in the middle of the jungle, I'm far from help. So, yeah, but the beauty of this was but using the concept of willful tolerance and surrender to send behavioral and experiential signals back down the chain to the amygdala. Amygdala. To say, I know you want to freak out, and I know you think I should be looking for help and keep myself safe. It's all good. I'm gonna show you that we're okay here. And over time, it was a longer trip. She settled in and had a good time. Perfect.

SPEAKER_03 10:06

Also, who has a 10-day wedding? I mean, I love that kind of level of self-indulgence, you know.

SPEAKER_02 10:13

I would uh I don't I don't think it was a 10-day wedding. She missed the wedding and then went on this 10-day trip. So it wasn't even the idea. I thought it was a sorry, I thought the same thing. I'm like, this is a 10-day jungle wedding? Respect.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

Like yeah, I'm all for that, by the way. If you want to submit them into the to the podcast about here's the most self-indulgent thing I did, we would enjoy them too. I remember on my 30th birthday, I I uh hosted a festival in my own honor called Josh Fest. And it was a whole weekend with live music, a roast, uh, everything, and and it was one of the best weekends of my life. Um Josh Fest. Yeah, it was it was terrible. No, it was brilliant. It was one of the life. Well done. Uh, that was brilliant.

SPEAKER_02 11:01

I would throw in on this one to wrap this one up is uh this person ended with thanking us. We appreciate that, thank you. Uh, for changing my mindset. I just want to point that out because some people will hear that and maybe misinterpret. The mindset change is what allowed this person to behave differently. This wasn't like, oh, we said we somehow magically created a new mindset and thinking differently fixed it. No.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

What I loved as well, something you said a while ago, Drew, is like behave how you want to feel. Yeah. Yeah. No, how you want to feel in the future. Sure. And that and that's and that's wonderful. Thank you for sending that in. I have another one here to bring to the table. Sure. Um, hey guys, love the podcast, been a tremendous help. Thank you very much. Uh, I want to share a did it anyway that I nailed today. I suffer from health anxiety, particularly fears about heart attack, stroke, pulmonary embolism, anything sudden. It has been on the mend, but I had a pretty new and unexpected experience today. While I'm between deliveries at my job, I got a strange tickle in the back of my throat that caused a pretty persistent and unavoidable cough. It got to the point that my airway began to feel slightly constricted, or probably the globus sensation, which is a very common symptom of anxiety. Uh then boom, the flood of adrenaline hits me and I begin to panic. The panic dominated my thoughts for several minutes as I worried what could be the cause? Was it the dreaded pulmonary pulmonary embolism? I did a Google search to check my symptoms. At this point, you might be thinking, how on earth is this a did it anyway moment? Yes, I am thinking that. Well, I decided to put the phone away and embrace the uncertainty. My chest doesn't hurt, I can breathe just fine. I feel in danger because of my overactive threat response, not because I'm actually in danger. Discomfort is not danger. I took a sip of water, let my manager know I needed a minute, and waited for the wave to subside. Eventually I started debating about whether it was safe to get back on the road. The cough has calmed down, but there is that lingering doubt that I'm not going to be okay. But I got back on the road, willfully tolerating the uncertainty. I arrived at the delivery location and took the three flights of stairs to the door at full speed, despite my amygdala screaming at me that it might be dangerous. It turns out I just had a bit of tortilla chip caught in an odd place in my throat. It's always a tortilla chip, it always comes down to that. So, well, I didn't do everything right. I told Craig the critic to shut up and got back to living and pat myself on the back for not letting my anxiety take over the rest of my shift.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Oh, there's a lot of good in this one.

SPEAKER_03 14:09

What I love about that is like is the analysis afterwards. That is a great did it anyway. It's very real, it's very relatable. You're not going to be that perfect. Oh, I'm doing willful tolerance. Um, I'm glad you almost feel it sounds like you're laughing at it at the end of it there. Yeah, but it goes to show that in the moment the amygdala can convince you, oh, this is really dangerous. Um, but then again, that metacognitive awareness, like stepping back and going, here's a chance to lean into uncertainty. The probability is overwhelmingly, overwhelmingly on my side here. And with your behavior, you behave like you want to feel. Actually, no, I'm I I'm gonna lean into my this probability. I'm gonna go up these stairs, even though my mind's telling me I'm having a heart attack or pulmonary emulism. No, I'm gonna wager this is just anxiety, and yeah, brilliant. And you told Craig the critic to sharp, we love that bullying is not condoned unless we're bullying Craig the critic back. Oh, yeah. We love doing that stuff. Yeah, no, there's uh so much good in this one.

SPEAKER_02 15:15

So much. I love it. I love the this could have been a failure story easily. I was triggered, I uh you know, back to the old thing. I can't seem to get it, I don't know what's wrong with me. But it was sure, it was some white knuckling, there was some triggered activity there with the old ways, and then I noticed what I was doing and I changed my course. That is so good. That is so good, and the defiance of running up those stairs, I'm a huge fan.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Oh, I was excellent. I'm also really enjoying the imagery of this delivery driver just just mashing tortilla chips into his mouth, and then five minutes later having a panic attack, but it's a it's an embolism. Like, no, no, no. You're all right, you're okay, dude.

SPEAKER_02 15:56

Yeah, I do have the image of puffing up a little bit of tortilla chip and like then really, yeah. Oh no, that's what it was. I I think we could all relate to that to a certain extent. Great, great.

SPEAKER_03 16:07

Love it, love it. Fantastic, fantastic. What have you got in your deck of winds?

SPEAKER_02 16:12

Well, let's go on to uh okay, I have another one here. Um, I haven't did it anyway. Oh, I love this one. A local library was having their annual book sale. Love books. Uh, I arrived and noticed that it was incredibly busy. My first instinct was to go home and come back later. I decided instead to at least park and go inside and check it out. I was immediately overwhelmed, but continued on. I got to the main room where there were wall-to-wall people, but I decided that I was going to go through at least a couple of tables. Then I got to a point where I was completely blocked in from the exit and I could feel the bodily sensations starting. I was able to keep the wood if's at bay, the metaphobia struggles, and war worked through my physical body feelings. I was ready to leave after 20 minutes, but persisted, and my anxiety mostly dissipated after some time. And I end up ended up staying for two full hours. I plan on going back today. Oh, come on. Another awesome one. You guys are killing it with these today. Love it.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

Well, that follows on really nicely from that previous episode on white knuckling. I was a bit like, no, I'm going to go in and just feel the sensations. I believe that this will pass if I do the correct things. And it did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

So some people I've heard, and I love this by the way, some people call exposures behavioral experiments. Have you ever heard that term? I love that term now. Because essentially what this person is describing is an experiment. Like, well, I don't want to go to this, but what if I just go and park in the car park and go in for a minute? Experiment number one. Okay, that went all right. What if I just walk through a couple of the book tables? Experiment number two, okay, that one, all right. What if I just stay for another 20 minutes? That one, all right. Now I'm gonna keep going. A series of small adjustments and experiments, take a little risk and then build on them.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

And that was a perfect example of that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh excellent, excellent. Really, really well done. And again, thank you for sending that in to disordered.fm. We love that. We love that. Um, I have one here for you. Sure. Um last weekend I awoke with a pain in my left shoulder. At first I thought I'd slept on it, funny, but when the pain didn't disappear in a couple of minutes, my anxious mind told me that there was a heart attack incoming. Every part of me wanted to go to the hospital, but my youngest daughter had soccer, and she loves soccer. I bet she supports Newcastle United. Probably. I'm just gonna keep kind of shoeing. Everybody in the US loves Newcastle United. Yeah. I love watching her play too, as it gives her such joy. So instead of doing what my anxious mind was instructing and ditching soccer for a day at the hospital, I did it anyway and took my daughter to the soccer game. If that wasn't good enough, my daughter kicked the winning goal with a minute to go. Oh, there we go. It was the first goal of her life, and the excitement on her face was one of the best moments of my life. And I wouldn't have missed it if I I would have missed it if I'd have listened to my anxiety. Oh, another awesome one. And she game-winning goal. Come on, yeah, that's amazing. Well done, mostly well done to your daughter. You know, yeah. I hope she uh ran to the corner flag with some derisory celebration, started goading the away fans' parents. Um, well done. That's uh that's so good, you know. And again, here's an opportunity. Craig the critic, if you're listening now, Craig the Critic might come in and be like, oh, look, what you may have missed if you didn't no, it doesn't matter. Actually, that occurred because this person's probably avoided loads of stuff, then decided to come out and challenge um the opportune moment was there to to witness his daughter um play football, have the best moment of their life. Don't let great critic be like, oh, well, you know, I'm I'm not there yet. You know, maybe I've missed the best moment of my life. No, it doesn't work like that. That's not happening. It's there waiting for you whenever you're ready.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Love it. I think this is a great story about the role of, you know, we hear all the time recovery is about that it's value-driven, like you're moving away from feeling toward away from fear and toward values. This is a great example. Like, no, no, no, I value my relationship with my daughter and supporting her more than I am afraid of this, or more than I value the fear. So I'm gonna choose the value over the fear, roll the dice, see what happens. And I think it's a really great illustration of how what is important to us starts to bubble to the surface and starts to get a say in what we do as we go down the road. Really good. Um that was very wise, Drew. Yeah, and also not spending the entire paragraph describing everything that, you know, yeah, I was really anxious at the game. Like, okay, you acknowledge the struggle, but you focused on on the win. I grabbed my values. I was with my daughter, I watched her have this great time and score a goal. Love that.

SPEAKER_03 21:18

Can't be absolutely brilliant. Do we have any uh other voice notes in the air?

SPEAKER_02 21:24

We do, we do. I have a voice note I will share. This one is a little bit longer, but it's worth listening to because there's a lot of good stuff in it. So let's go now. Let's do it. See if I get my production act together. Here we go.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

Hi Drew and Josh. My name is Nicole. I listen to the podcast quite often and deeply appreciate the work that you guys are doing. I wanted to share a did it anyway. Um, I have a 15 month old baby and I suffer from generalized anxiety disorder, which um came about after uh a very horrific battle postpartum depression, postpartum anxiety. Um I had a work trip to New. Port Rhode Island recently that I was very scared to go on, having my mom come and watch my my son being away from him, being in a social setting, just a lot of uh triggers for me. Um but I I pretty much always do the things that I'm scared of. I've been doing that for almost a year now. So I went on the trip, and even though I had a huge spike in anxiety during one of the lunches on Saturday, I stayed at the lunch, I really engaged in conversation, and I got through it, went back to the hotel room and kind of decompressed and uh allowed myself to relax a bit and decided to then go back and join them for the sunset sale and dinner, and I was totally fine for the rest of the trip and really enjoyed myself. Um so I was really, really proud of myself that I got through it and that I did it, and it was just another uh one of uh millions of reminders that I've set in my brain that I can do this and I can get through it, even on the days where it's at its worst, um, or the days where I have a mood dip or a mood fluctuation. Um so just really proud of myself for continuing to do this work. Um I'm not yet at a place where um I don't have noticeable anxiety or I don't have tough days. Um it's still pretty consistently tough days, but I know that it'll get better because I know that I'm making progress. So thank you for everything you guys do. Just wanted to share that.

SPEAKER_02 23:24

Another great one. Another great one.

SPEAKER_03 23:27

Yeah, a lot of good stuff in there too. Very human again. Um, what I loved about that was the self-compassion, and a lot of people with anxiety struggle with self-compassion, and a self-compassion even in a in a situation that perhaps isn't ideal for us. Um, but I know I'll get to a good place. Um and patting yourself on the honestly is so important. You know, a lot of people dismiss self-compassion, um, they want to compare themselves to their ideal and fill the void and the gap between where you are and the ideal with unnecessary self-criticism and this authoritarian kind of inner inner voice, and Craig the critic. Uh there was none of that there, and that's kind of why we we chose that one today. I think it's it's a wonderful example of of kind of being kind self, and you know what? I I believe you will get to a really good place one day. I can I know it actually. Just hear it. If you keep maintaining it, I can hear it.

SPEAKER_02 24:26

Yeah, yeah, you could hear the principles at play, you can hear the person applying the principles. I think the the part that I really loved was I I'm showing my brain, I'm sending signals again and again that I can do it even when I feel bad, even when I'm having a bad day, even when my mood is low. I can do that. And I love that the the uh acknowledgement that like I'm sending signals, I'm doing it. This is what this is the break, this is the lesson I'm teaching my amygdala, my limbic system. And you could hear in in her voice that it's it's taking root. It's the the way she described it. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Yeah, yeah. And it's tricky as well. Like it illustrates that it is tricky. Yeah, you know, we're not all here with cheerleaders with pom-poms and like, yeah, we're amazing, we're killing it. No, the journey sometimes is like, yeah, like I've got to just take a moment and be like, okay, you know, I'm doing well, but you know, it can be tricky.

SPEAKER_02 25:20

Yeah, you know, we can't know for sure, but I think there's probably a if I was wagering, I would wager that this person has been at this for a while. And this trip was something down the road for her. Maybe this would have been impossible a while ago. I mean, I'm guessing here. Of course, I don't know for sure, but this is the kind of thing that happens after there's been practice and repeated experiences. This isn't a I hadn't left my house for four months and then I went on a work trip and had a great time with a sunset cruise. There was probably a lot of work before this that we didn't see. So just be aware of that. It's a little bit out of time. Every day, a little bit matters.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

Very good. Oh, is that absolutely brilliant? Yeah, um, whose turn is it?

SPEAKER_02 25:59

It is uh that was mine, so you go.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

Okay. Um hi Josh. Thank you to you and Drew for your amazing work. I have struggled with anxiety for eight years now after missing after years of missing out on things, I've taken I sorry after years of missing out on things, I've taken the leap and feeling the fear and doing it anyway. Yesterday I took four children out for lunch by myself in a very busy cafe and had a lovely time whilst feeling uncertain. This is a huge win for me. Felt very proud and capable yesterday. Next challenge is a three-day holiday with my kids without my husband. And then the last word is win. Oh, that is the proper last word for sure. Love that. Um, four children for lunch in a cafe. That's giving me anxiety already. Well, that's amazing. Well done. There's only a certain amount of chicken nuggets that can play cake. Um, uh, John, I think that's absolutely brilliant. Uh, yeah, I'm gonna feel uncertain here, you know. And what I liked about it is that you did it with responsibility too. Yeah. Uh, Drew, how many times do we hear Craig the Crick or anxiety saying, oh yeah, but you know, the stakes are high here. There's children involved.

SPEAKER_02 27:19

Yeah, I think it's it's huge. I hear it on the daily. I'm sure you do too, especially in the parenting role. It will attack that right away. Like, you can't take a chance while the kids are here. Either I can't let them see me in distress, or I'm I'm responsible for them. How will I care for them if I can't care for myself? So this is this is a roll of the dice. We're watching somebody here roll the dice, take a risk, take a leap of faith, and like, okay, uh, I I think I I let me see if I could do this even when I feel like I maybe shouldn't. And then yeah, it's really good.

SPEAKER_03 27:49

I hope you enjoyed your meal as well. And and actually, if uh let us know how the holiday goes. Yeah, you know, uh, next I like that as well. The the attitude shift. Then my next challenge is a three-day holiday with my kids, without my husband as well. You framed it in a way that like it's almost like bring it on. It's like, all right, okay, it's my next challenge. I don't sense any kind of almost self-doubt there. It's like, no, I'm gonna this is a challenge I'm gonna do. Yeah, and again, we we we applaud that. It's brilliant. You might feel anxious. In my guess would be the anticipatory anxiety is gonna be worse than the actual event. Uh, and that's something that you can deal with too. And having that isn't a failure, you will be nervous about it, but that's okay. Yeah, oh, have a lovely, have a lovely three-day holiday.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

Yeah, I mean, I I see a pattern here of people, you know, and I understand if you're listening right now and you're trying to find some inspiration, and hopefully you are, and you feel like you're in that place where, like, oh, I know, but it's just I can't bring myself. Try and attach to the feelings that you're hearing after the fact here. And it's a pattern. Well, I went back to the book sale the next day. Next, we're going on another trip after we did 10 days in a jungle. I'm going now. My next thing is. There's that feeling that it begins to build those experiences. Once you do that initial leap, you start to be able to build on that. So notice that in the patterns here. Really good. Okay, I got one. Um, let's do this one. Hi, love the show. Glad to hear it. I wanted to share a win that I felt I was able to experience because of your podcast. I would argue with that. You get the credit, not us. Witty and handsome though we may be.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

Speaking of software, I want some credit.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Recently, my daughter burned her hand and it required medical attention from the ER. I was immensely triggered by this as I have health anxiety. Ultimately, my daughter needed me, so I loaded her up and we spent six and a half hours there. Anxiety came along for the ride, of course. And at one point I felt a panic attack building, but I managed to just allow the discomfort to hang out, and I did not fuel the storm. Telling myself that I am safe even when I don't feel safe has changed my life. Thank you for what you do. Also, my daughter is recovering just fine, which is great news. Glad to hear that at the end, of course. So very well done. Another another parenting mom situation.

SPEAKER_03 30:14

Oh, maybe also another one with a real life situation. Yeah. So, like you know, we have the one at the beginning about actual scary things happening, but the fear of it of secondary fear, you know, taking over. And and and no, you were kind of allowed the initial fear to be there, but kept kind of secondary fear at bay by saying, Well, well, kind of do what you want. I'm not gonna resist this. Um, I'm gonna stay here, I'm gonna support my daughter. Um, you know, and and I'm also very happy to hear that, you know, hands okay and stuff. But yeah, I mean, that's um that's a great example of it as well. And being honest, self-disclosure, hospitals, ERs, they're very triggering for me too, and still are various uh traumatic um experiences in the past. Um, you've applied everything, you know, that that that we that we say here, and and and well done, have a huge pat on the back.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

Yeah, it's a very big deal. I love it. I my favorite part was the part where this person was starting to feel panic and just allowed it to hang out there without trying to stop it, fix it, solve it, squash it, ground, do all the things, and didn't fuel the storm. One of the more gratifying things, here's a self-serving statement. I think Josh and I would probably both agree with this, is to hear your own words echoed back at you in this work that we do. It's always nice. And uh, so that's that's a quote I know from one of my podcast episodes on The Anxious Truth. So I appreciate that too. And well done for applying the principles. I I'm I'm scared here, I'm uncomfortable. What what are the principles I have to apply here? Tolerance, surrender, don't struggle.

SPEAKER_03 31:51

And it turned out absolutely spot on, very sincere. Well done. Um, not just you, uh, but to everyone so far. Um, I have one more. I think you might have one more as well. Yes, I do. Here's my so we've got two left. Is the penultimate did it anyway? Um, hi guys, love the podcast. Listen to it nightly. Uh that's okay, that's cool. Just make sure you don't listen to it compulsively, you know, as much as our voices are mellifluous and wonderful. Um, you know, make sure you can do it too, you know, unless you're really trying to drill into your brain, you know, the principles of anxiety recovery. But that's cool, thank you. I appreciate that. Uh, I've been able to get out with the anxiety and not let it scare me back home. I used to run from it, hide out, pace, call someone, or just full-on meltdown because my tolerance was nil. Building up my tolerance has not been easy, but I'm so glad you guys are teaching me how. I hashtag did it anyway. For me, is staying up late at night intentionally because it makes me anxious. I always feared being up past a certain time because I felt alone, and in the past, panic attacks would always be at night. I'm working on exposing myself nightly, staying up five minutes later than the last night, and so far I'm up to 11 30 p.m. Having all the feels, wanting to quit, but not going to. Love it. That is superb. What do you like about that, Drew?

SPEAKER_02 33:34

What I love about that is the incremental win there. Like, what a practical application of a principle. So, like, I'm I'm afraid to stay up too late because there is some anxiety surrounding sleep and rest and recovery, probably. So I'm just gonna stay up five minutes later before I get into bed and five minutes more, and five minutes more. It is a perfect example of being incremental and systematic in the approach. And that is the the payback you get from that is like, look, I'm starting to build confidence. I can see that now. Up till 11:30.

SPEAKER_03 34:05

That's that's a big deal. Also, yeah, that's the perfect example of willful tolerance. Like I am intentionally gonna stay up tonight, knowing that this is the time that triggers me. Yep. And the win is already in the anecdote. You've built it up to 11:30, you're already winning, you're already rewiring the amygdala. Um, and the penny will drop at some point. It'll be like actually, it's nothing to do with time. We often hear this quite a lot, don't we, Drew? Like, oh, I get morning anxiety, evening anxiety, I get anxiety all day long. There's certain time situations that that trigger my anxiety. Um, and if if if that applies to you, go listen to our episode. We've got anxiety morning and evening and anxiety all day long. Uh, there are episodes in the past. Um, but I what I like is your the formulation here. So, as CBT therapists, what we do is we we will formulate what the problem is, and you've done it yourself. You formulated that the problem is the main fear of fear is at night at a specific time, so you have focused your attention and your intentions on this time. Like, no, this is the bit that's troubling for me, and this is probably taps into my brain, it probably gives me anticipatory anxiety throughout the day. I'm gonna just go towards that and see what happens. Um, superb. And this also applies to people with sleep anxiety as well. We'll do an episode on sleep anxiety soon, yeah. Which is kind of like it doesn't matter, you're okay. You know, it's all right if if you don't sleep or it's a bit rough. It doesn't matter whether you wake up at 3 a.m. or if it's 11:30 and whatever. I love that. That's the perfect example of the attitude that we that we kind of want to teach you. And and well done.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

Yeah, that was really great. I love that this could have been a and this would be an outgrowth of question we get all the time. Any tips for? I'd love to hear you talk about, right? Insert whatever sleep anxiety in this case. There were no tips here. It wasn't like, well, I stay up five minutes later and I make sure I have my essential oils and I have soft lighting in my blue light glasses. Maybe, but that's not the focus here.

SPEAKER_03 36:21

That's what you do every Tuesday night.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Well, that's me, and then my bubble bath and my lavender oil and my blue light. But uh I think it's important to recognize, like, yes, what Josh was saying, I'm doing this to get triggered. I'm intentionally trying to get triggered to practice and get better at this. So well done. I cannot applaud this more. Very good. Super. Yep. Um, okay, I have one more quick one, I guess. Uh let's do this one. Um, hey, because this is an interesting because it's a diagnostic thing or an assessment thing. Hey, Drew and Josh, I just wanted to share a big win for me. I've had health anxiety for as long as I can remember, and I just thought it was something I had to live with. However, after learning so much from both of your pages and your podcasts, plus the help of a fantastic therapist, love it. I am now officially recovered. I've gone from a clinical HA score of 34 to an 11. Feeling super proud of myself, and I wanted to thank both of you for the amazing work that you do. Very well done. Clearly, there's a lot of work that went into this post. It's a very short post, but nonetheless.

SPEAKER_03 37:19

That is a yeah, we acknowledge the work there. Uh, particularly health anxiety that's usually ripe with rumination, uh compulsive reassurance seeking, information gathering, um, compulsive Googling, you know. I've been there, I think Drew's been there. Um, it sounds like you've done a lot of hard work there, and that's superb. Um, HA score, I presume, is a health assessment score. Uh in the UK, we call it um uh the GAD 7, uh, which is you know, go in and you you you fill out kind of, and if anyone's been to like bog standard CBT therapy, it's like you know, fill out out of 10 how crap you felt, you know. But over time, if you're filling that out and you're realizing that the scores are getting lower and lower, and there's a consistency to that, it means that you know that's that can be used as an indicator that you know your your overall anxiety levels are lowered, yes and and and well done. There's a lot of hard work that's gone into that. Um don't obviously don't there'll be some times and some odd days and occasions, this is really important. There may be the odd day where by coincidence, if you were to fill that form in and you've and you've had a bit of a not a setback, but you know, you just had a bit of a difficult day, yeah, those scores might be higher. But that doesn't take away from the effort. It just this is just a kind of coincidence that that might have happened. But in general, if you're gonna use those kind of metrics, you know, take take the positive from that. And well done for your hard work.

SPEAKER_02 38:51

Yeah, very good. And those are metrics that you know the clinician would use to also judge like, do you still need to even be here? You know, should we talk about terminating therapy? Do you need this anymore? So they're useful for a lot of reasons, but they're not the be-all end all. And if you were, like Josh said, to take a test and oh no, I scored a 23 today, used to be an 11. It's not, oh, all bets are off, square one, I'm I've I've relapsed. It's just I'm having a particularly difficult day today. Some old habits came up. I know what to do.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

Yeah, it's a bit funny. I don't take metrics in here, but like if you're working with panic disorder, for me, my success for let's say panic disorder is the ability to tolerate panic. So people would come in here and they'd be chilled out for weeks, and then one day they might be having a panic attack in here. I'm looking at the ability to willfully tolerate that panic. That's where I see the success. But if I gave them a form, they might be like, oh, you know, I'm I'm 10, I'm five, I'm 10, uh, the disaster is imminent. I'm not going to use that as a metric of success for you. Right. You know, and I just a slight, you know, what don't use those things as a measurement of how well you're doing. But in that anecdote, I can see why, and I think that's brilliant, you know, and well done.

SPEAKER_02 40:05

I would think this person already had a feeling that they were could call themselves recovered or wanted to, and that was a validation of that. Like, look, there's here's numerical proof that I am feeling different. Love it.

SPEAKER_03 40:14

So absolutely superb. Uh, that was brilliant. This was a kind of spontaneous idea to do today, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_02 40:23

That was Josh's idea, full credit, and I love this episode. We're gonna do more of these for sure.

SPEAKER_03 40:27

Uh yeah, that was round one of the did it anyways. Keep sending them in, and then every you know, once in a while we'll do we'll do round two, round three, etc. Yeah. Um, just a small plug if um if you are struggling and you and you feel like you need some more intensive um support, Drew and I do run um uh it is a paid support group if you feel like you need a bit of a boost. We don't hide anything in there, there's no pay uh there's nothing hidden behind a paywall. But if you'd like to join a little WhatsApp group with me and Drew and a very small group of people uh to help you with your exposures, we'll be happy to do that. And there's more information on about that on disorder.fm. It is not essential, there is nothing mandatory about it. Everything that we talk about will be in this podcast. But if you feel like you need a bit need a bit of a booster uh and you want to, you know, unfortunately have our voices and interactions for for 30 days, then you know, so be it. You know, the the the options there.

SPEAKER_02 41:27

Small group, no more than 10 or 12 people, and we generally will focus them in specific specific situations, agoraphobia, health anxiety, social anxiety, OCD. So we'll make sure you get fit in with people who share the same concerns as you. And again, no, there's no magic. It's not like, oh, you gotta take this course to learn the magic to recovery. No, it's just good old-fashioned community support with some good leadership.

SPEAKER_03 41:47

Absolutely. Yeah, because uh to be honest, we speak a lot with the community, and there's a lot of um people are tired of these kind of quick fix courses and stuff, and uh it irks me a little bit. I know it irks Drew as well. I'm not sure if you'll say that. Yeah, I don't want to don't don't don't don't don't get in. Yeah, there we go. And uh yeah, it's just an option. If not, tune in later. Well, obviously, we've got um self-help books and we've got social media profiles. So you can find me at anxietyjosh, you can find Drew at v.anxious.truth. Yep, or you can just tune in.

SPEAKER_02 42:20

Yeah, so we're gonna be here. Yeah, we'll be here every week, like we always are, making it up as we go along sometimes. But you can if you hit our website at disorder.fm, you can pop in our mailing list and we will let you know about you know support groups. Uh, and also you could send us did it anyways. Questions, email, voicemail. Keep them coming in.

SPEAKER_03 42:37

We love them.

SPEAKER_02 42:38

Great. So thanks everybody. Appreciate you coming by and listening and hanging out with us today, as always. We'll see you again next week. Catch you soon. We're out.