Anxiety and Not Feeling The "Right" Emotions (Episode 138)

SPEAKER_00 0:01

A lot of people who are in the sensitized state will then berate themselves, get frustrated when they don't feel like they air quotes should be feeling.

SPEAKER_02 0:14

When we are fighting the emotion that we are experiencing in the moment, we make it much less likely that we will move on to other emotions organically. We see people who are, you know, having these wins or like little victories, did it anyways, they're facing the challenges, they're moving through them, they're navigating, but then they will declare failure because of how they felt while they did it.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

Why am I not having the appropriate emotion? And then people with OCD, it's even worse. So you've got like relationship OCD. Why am I not feeling the feeling I should be having right now? How good am I at allowing all emotions? Welcome to Disorder. This is episode 138 entitled How I Should Be Feeling. My name's Joshua Fletcher, also known as Anxiety Josh, and I'm a psychotherapist based in Manchester in the UK. Knows all things anxiety and anxiety disorders. Probably been through most of it myself, and I blend professional and personal experience to uh help others going through the same. And I'm joined by my wonderful esteemed co-host and friend.

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Yes, from all the way across the Atlantic Ocean in New York, I am Drew Linsolata, also a therapist that specializes in anxiety and anxiety disorders and kind of live through all the stuff too. If you've listened before, you know the intros. Author, psychoeducator. The other half of disordered. Today we're going to talk about how I'm supposed to feel, but I but I want to feel a different way.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Yeah. And this is inspired because I've been doing some um lots of client work recently. It's really nice. Uh, and a theme that comes up a lot and has done throughout the years is this, and this is gonna be a Craig the Critic kind of episode as well. So where is he here? We'll join. He's special guest. Oh, he's always here.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

It's Craig the Critic.

SPEAKER_00 2:03

Yeah, and um it's this voice that kind of permeates, invades itself into the narrative of overcoming anxiety, and it's this well, you should be feeling that way. So I don't know about you, Drew, but many people with anxiety, whether it's panic disorder, agrophobia, OCD, GAD, just an obsession with fixing themselves, obsessed with how you feel. Craig the critic usually jumps on in on this because when there's special events in life, maybe you're getting married, maybe you're going watching the football, maybe you're on a works night out, maybe it's your birthday and you're at a restaurant and you've got a oh yeah, maybe it's the birth of your child, maybe it's your children's birthday or their graduation, whatever. A lot of people who in the sensitized state will then berate themselves, get frustrated when they don't feel like they air quotes should be feeling. Did you ever have that?

SPEAKER_02 3:07

Uh, I did. There were times when I was kind of just hanging on, admittedly, sort of white knuckling through some family type events. And there were moments where I would feel like this is not right. Like I should be happy, I should be calm, I should be grateful because I'm here with my family and this is a positive thing, and here I am just trying to not snap like at the table. And yeah, that's I can't say I had it a lot, but it would creep in now and then for sure.

SPEAKER_00 3:33

Yeah, I I hear it a lot. I used to have it a bit myself, but you know, we're in the business of all emotions are welcome. And if you're someone who gets annoyed at themselves because you know, you put the pressure on yourself to feel a certain way because it matches the you know, the moment. Conventionally, I should be feeling this on my anniversary, but actually I'm struggling with intrusive thoughts or DPDR or panic or obsessing with how I feel trying to fix myself. One, that doesn't help anyway, and two, it doesn't go along with the lines of all feelings are welcome. When all feelings are welcome, you're more likely to have the feelings you want, but sometimes you're just not gonna feel 100% how you're gonna feel that matches the situation, yeah. You know, like I've got meeting up with some old friends later, I've been really excited all week. Now it's gonna it's gonna happen in about an hour, and I'm actually feeling a bit tired and can't don't really want to can't be bothered. Yeah, but that's okay because all feelings are welcome, and it doesn't sound unusual if I say that. Yeah, but Craig the Critic and anxious people, oh no, you should be feeling us a certain way. You should be feeling grateful. I like that grateful, yeah. You know, that's a very Craig the Craig thing. You should be feeling grateful. It's a big one.

SPEAKER_02 4:54

I I hear it in my practice too all the time. I have people who are just in really difficult circumstances, whether it's their anxiety or just life is just pressing on them, and you know, life is hard sometimes, and still feel like, but I should be grateful. No, no, no, you should not be grateful for this. There is no reason to be grateful for like your boss is kicking your ass and you're short of money, and the weather is terrible and the kids are sick and like you're not getting along with your partner. You don't need to be grateful for that. Yet they somehow think I should be feeling gratitude here at the holiday season. No, not today, you shouldn't. It's fine if you don't. It's really it's okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

So I love that. Yeah, yeah. I've had loads of clients over the years who get who've got married or moved house whilst in the sensitized state. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, that's tricky. That's pretty hard. Yeah, yeah, that's okay. You can still just go for it. There'll be windows that you'll enjoy and you'll enjoy it retrospectively as well. Yeah, but stop beating yourself up because you've got to feel a certain way.

SPEAKER_02 5:51

I think one of the things that makes and I'll get to the geeky stuff in a minute, because you know I'm gonna. The I when we are fighting the emotion that we are experiencing in the moment, we make it much less likely that we will move on to other emotions organically. So I I would agree with you. Like, this is one of the favorite things I do. Like when we record together, it's one of my favorite hours of the week. But I'm tired. Same thing. I just a little grumpy this morning. But like, all right, yeah. But if I just if I don't beat myself up for feeling that way, I'm much more likely at some point to maybe enjoy this hour or at least not be grumpy anymore. Like let it flow, right?

SPEAKER_00 6:31

My fawn response is kicking off like crazy, Drew. Please like me. What did I do to offend you? I'm really sorry.

SPEAKER_02 6:39

Oh, Josh is fawning. But I get it, like, you know, you're gonna hang out with your buddies and like you're just not feeling it. But like some point during the night, if you're okay and you can let yourself feel that way, you might wind up having a great time, like and forgetting that you felt crappy earlier on. So don't know what's gonna come up, but let it flow organically, and you know, that's okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Comes up a lot in holidays, Christmas time, or just or just general like vacations. Like everyone around me on the beach is relaxed and burning in themselves in the sun and reading Mel Robin's book. And I can't, I can't, I feel very different perceptibly to everyone else. Yeah, so then that adds a pressure to be different. But as Drew says, you add pressure and frustration to try and change how you feel, yeah. Not gonna work, is it?

SPEAKER_02 7:30

You know, it does happen in the big events for sure, holiday season, tomorrow's Christmas Eve, as a re-recording, but it could happen even in the silliest moments. And when we we see people who are, you know, having these wins or like little victories, did it anyways, they're facing the challenges, they're moving through them, they're navigating. But then they will declare failure because of how they felt while they did it. It is probably the biggest obstacle in my practice. Like, well, I did it, but like I was so scared, or I felt like I was gonna lose my mind. I know, but you handled that, you got to the other side of that and you did it spectacularly. Yeah, but I didn't feel uh I just want to shake them at that point, right?

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Anxious desensitization is not measured by the absence of the symptoms, yeah, it is measured by the willingness to be with them. If you are there kicking off, and don't get me wrong, you're human, you're gonna get frustrated and stuff like that. Anyone would, but if you're there constantly getting frustrated with yourself and annoyed and stuff and resisting, you're not on the right path to the sensitization. It's always a very quick, compassionate cognitive reframe. I'm anxious, okay. Ideally don't want that this here, but here's a chance for me to show the brain that this is not the most important thing in the room. The moment you start kicking off, fighting, kicking, screaming, whatever, you've made it the most important thing in the room, and the emotion is less likely to finish when you want well, quick or when you want it to. Yeah, you know. Whereas if you're the person who let's say you are on holiday, you are on the beach, yeah, and you're looking around and you're comparing and getting annoyed at yourself, catch yourself and go, okay, well, what have I learned? Okay, this doesn't have to be this feeling doesn't have to be the most important thing here. You know me, I always bang on about do what non-anxious you would do. Sometimes it's fake it till you make it. Love it. Teaches the brain, sends so many signals to the brain when you fake it till you make it. It's like, no, no, no, this is what I want to do, and it doesn't matter if this feeling is here, because this is the best thing I can do now to teach you that you're not needed. And lo and behold, you do that. Say the word do, but you know, you apply that attitude as best you can, you'll notice it's it it passes quicker.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Yeah, and then you're not as worried and you're not so quick to judge it, like, oh my god, it's here, this is horrible. Like, yeah, it's here, I don't like it, but I can handle this. You start to shift into I can handle this, and then sure enough, you move through it, and then things come and go, and uh emotions ebb and flow. Okay, that's what normally is supposed to happen. So it is really hard if you're going to say, Yes, but uh, but I'm the only one in the room. I hear this one all the time, like, oh, I I took my kids to the library for the first time in a year and a half, but like no other mom in the library was was worried about going insane, only me. And like, that's bad. That's so I ruined it. I'm like, no, you you did it. This is, I think, a core issue in in desensitization and recovery and progress. It's the whole, like, yeah, I do want to do it the way these guys on this crazy podcast talk about, but I also want to carefully control and judge and evaluate the emotions that I have as being correct, incorrect, or winning or failing. Well, you can't do one without the other. You gotta let every emotion happen, or you're gonna be really frustrated after a while.

SPEAKER_00 10:46

Yeah. Yeah. How good am I at allowing all emotions? Do we have any examples of that that we could show to people?

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Um, we have an example of that. Let's do it, let's do a did it anyway that I think is a great did it anyway, and also a good teaching moment. So here we go.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

Hi, my name is Lucia, and I'm 17 years old, and I live on Long Island in the state of New York, just like Drew. Here's my Did It Anyway. So today I went to this old restored village that I go to every year around Christmas time, and you just walk through and but it's in complete darkness, and the only light is candles, is like candles and fire and stuff. Previously I haven't left my house in two days because I've been dealing with my anxiety for almost 10 years at this point. In the past two years, my main focus or has been towards my anxiety attack before I left because I was so scared that something was gonna happen or is gonna die or something. And I was anxious the whole car right there. Literally, from the moment I left my house to the moment I got home, I was listening to your podcast, which always helps me every time without failed despite knuckling a lot, obviously. But I constantly did this compulsion where I wouldn't have glasses, so I would take off my glasses, on and off my glasses, I would take them off because it was overwhelming to see everything, but then I would put them back on because my vision was blurry, just to make sure like it wasn't something wrong with my eyes. I was obsessed with sensations in my head. I was obsessed with checking if I was dizzy or not, which I was sometimes, which is scary. I'm obsessed with, I was obsessed with checking if I was gonna faint, especially if I was standing still, um, obsessed with arm and leg sensations. I wish I could have been more present, but the fact that I even got out of the house was pretty impressive. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:29

I love it. That's really great. That last statement. I wish I could have been more present, but the fact that I even got out of the house, that's it. Right there. Yeah. That I'm gonna have to be okay with the the way I felt.

SPEAKER_00 12:41

Keep that going, keep that going. And you were happy as well because it's a uh a Long Island did it anyway.

SPEAKER_02 12:48

Strong Island checking in. She was clearly going to a bagel place or something.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

What country is Long Island situated in?

SPEAKER_02 12:55

Oh, it's in America. Yes. It's funny that I was listening to us last week, which I rarely do, and you were talking about the eagle, and I'm like red tail hawk, red tail hawk, red tail hawk. We know it's not an eagle.

SPEAKER_00 13:07

So uh I love that. I love the notice, the metacognitive awareness, noticing compulsions, brilliant awareness. I noticed that was a compulsion. I know I'm doing that as a safety behavior. Yeah, that's cool. Now you've noticed that, that's great. So then you can start to lean into it more. Really good stuff that keep it going, keep pushing on. That's really good.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

As somebody a lifelong wearer of contact and glasses, I felt that glasses on, glasses off, glasses on, glasses off. I used to do that all the time. So thank you, Lichia. A lot of people feel seen, I'm sure, listening to you. Um, one thing that I would add for sure, uh, another bit of awareness just to throw it in there. From the time I left to the time I got home, I was listening to your podcast. Now that's a thing that you want to work on. You don't want to use the podcast as a safety device. But people ask all the time like, if I have to, if I choose between staying in the house again for the third day in a row or listening to a podcast while I go out, take the podcast and go out. Thank you very much. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. That's a huge win. You would just want to work over time. I'm like, no, I don't have to listen to those guys. They don't save me from anything. But do that. Yeah. If that's how you get out, do that. I'd rather you get out and do that than not get out.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

So well done. Are you still angry with me?

SPEAKER_02 14:19

I'm not even going to answer. I'm just going to fuel fuel your fun. That's exactly right. I think I can answer that. Are we okay? We're okay, right? We're good. Are we good?

SPEAKER_00 14:28

That that is the best answer. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not even going to answer that.

SPEAKER_02 14:31

That is an anxiety therapist here. Yeah, I'm not maybe, maybe I am. How will you know?

SPEAKER_00 14:40

It's Christmas time coming up. It is. You should be feeling happy and grateful.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

It's Christmas time in Hollis Creens.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Queens.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Mama's in the kitchen cooking collard greens.

SPEAKER_00 14:49

Oh, right. Nobody gets. Are you fully expecting to be joyful and happy and merry on Christmas Day?

SPEAKER_02 14:56

Well, I mean, uh, I maybe, maybe I will. I don't I don't know. I would it's always fun if I am, but I don't know. I don't know how I'm gonna feel on Christmas Day. I just don't know.

SPEAKER_00 15:06

Okay, let's say you wake up and then you've not had anxiety for for a long time, and let's say just on that day it happened on Christmas Day. How would you respond to that, Drew?

SPEAKER_02 15:17

That is a really good question, and it's a question I think we get asked a lot as former sufferers and now, air quotes, heavy air quotes, experts, but self-important blowhard experts, but okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:29

Uh we're no with no Mel Robbins, she's the real expert.

SPEAKER_02 15:32

Clearly, clearly not Mel Robbins. She's an expert on everything. Um it's a really good, I have a chip on my shoulder for Mel Robbins this morning. I woke up with it for no reason, literally no reason. It just was like it's ingrained in me. If I woke up on Christmas Day and I was having a very anxious day and all the symptoms and a little DPDR and all that stuff, now I would hate it. I would still not like it. I I never I don't love it. It's not like, oh no, cool, I'm anxious. But I I would recognize that like I can't do anything about this. I'm good, this is what I got right now. So I'm just gonna have to do the best I can to not fight against this and just surf through those feelings and see what happens. Maybe it'll end in five minutes, maybe it'll end in an hour. I don't know when it's gonna end, but it's okay. I don't have to, I don't have to turn it into an emergency. That is legitimately the way I would interact with that.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yeah. Right? Mine'll be the same. Yeah. You know, you I'd have the human response if I if that happened.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:24

You know, I'd be like, yeah. And Christmas for me is quite tricky because it brings up a lot of emotions for me. So I'm more likely to actually get into that state. So I'm already saying, well, it won't surprise me if it happens. Okay. So there's already a willful tolerance before anything's even happened. Yeah. Willful tolerance applies even when you're not anxious. You know, it's not willful tolerance doesn't apply to in a response and a reaction to anxiety. It is an attitude that you have through all of your life, whether it's willful tolerance of anxiety or willful tolerance of all emotions. So even now, I I'm feeling very happy today. Uh a bit tired, like I said before, but you know, I'm feeling quite happy. Uh, and I can willfully willfully tolerate happiness, you know. But there's some actually I'm aware that actually Christmas can be tricky. And so I'm also aware that I might be anxious on Christmas Day. I might feel grief on Christmas Day. Yeah, I might feel anger and irritation on Christmas Day. That's all okay. You know, I it I'm gonna wake up with curiosity, and I love the episode we did, the death of curiosity. Yeah, it's good. I'm gonna wake up with curiosity even on Christmas Day. I'm confident though that there'll be big parts of Christmas Day that I will really enjoy, but I'm not setting that as the mark scheme to an exam of my own recovery and desensitization.

SPEAKER_02 17:49

Yeah, that's really good. I and I think one of the things that for both of us, as people who have been reached a desensitized, recovered state, if you you mentioned grief, right? Like I recognize that I might have some very difficult feelings on Christmas Day. I prefer not to have them, but I might. And for you, you can connect it to like, well, that's grief. I'm missing people who are no longer here. Uh, these birds brings up bad memories of uh difficult times in my life. And that's why I feel this way. Like, if I was anxious on Christmas morning, I might not be able to specifically point to it, but I would be able to recognize, like, yeah, there's some people who aren't here anymore, and it's been really stressful, and I'm really tired, and I'm really looking forward to a break, and like it maybe it's caught up with me. My my stress drug is overflowing a little bit. It's we can connect to why we might be feeling negative things. An anxious person only cares that they're feeling negative things. So see the difference is like, no, it's just that I'm I'm feeling badly is the biggest problem I got.

SPEAKER_00 18:44

And there's a delicate interplay there though, because we often say life isn't, you know, you exist outside of an anxiety disorder. Right. But the stress jug analogies here actually, Christmas is stressful. Long drives in the dark, social burner. I have to speak to a load of people, you know, birthday, um, not birthday, Christmas presents, things like that. I'm just using Christmas as an example. This could apply to anything, holidays, whatever. Yeah, and what I'm noticing that my stress drug is filling up. So, yes, my stress drug filling up is completely separate from the world of anxiety disorders, but there is a delicate interplay there that when the stress drug does fill up, I'm more likely to have that disordered threat response.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Yeah, I think what's the difference between a recovered or desensitized person and not? We know that all anxiety is not disordered anxiety, that's just a regular anxiety too, but uh the desensitized person could tell the difference, whereas the person who's still in the thick of it, all anxiety becomes the problem itself. So that that's tricky. Interestingly, I think you said before, like I've never been, you know, worried about being happy or I've never, but I have actually heard people who feel like there were instances where they weren't sad enough. So it's not always negatively judging or trying to control negative emotions. Yeah, it's like why am I not sad? I'm not sad enough when I'm looking through these photos of my family and maybe people who aren't here anymore or people that I miss. Why am I not feeling sad enough? I've heard that too. So, like the whole like, oh, that's a problem if I'm if I don't feel the right emotion.

SPEAKER_00 20:20

Why am I not full of joy when I look at my child, my newborn child? Constantly hear that all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like I should be fit, and this is the theme of today's episode. But you screwed, but it's that I should why am I not having the appropriate emotion? And then people with OCD is even worse. So you've got like relationship OCD, where you've got stuff like that. Why am I not feeling the feeling I should be having right now? Well, because you're in the middle of an OCD cycle, and if anything, I'd argue you should be feeling that if you're in the middle of an OCD cycle.

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:56

Yeah. What should I be feeling in the middle of an OCD cycle? Uh probably doubt.

SPEAKER_02 21:00

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:01

Oh no, I should be feeling happy. No, no, probably doubt. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. What should I be feeling if I set fire to my leg? Well, it is my child's play, so I should be feeling happy. No, you should be feeling in intense pain. Yeah. Say what should I be feeling if I'm in the middle of a sensitized anxious state? Well, given moment to moment, you probably should be feeling anxious. That is the way it's gonna go.

SPEAKER_02 21:30

And that's a hard sell. Yeah, yeah, that is a hard sell. And when you say willful tolerance starts before you're anxious, I think part of it is the willful tolerance of the fact that this is the way we work. Like, we we like to think that we can figure out, hack, control, engineer feelings, emotions, thoughts. We cannot. That is nonsense. We cannot do it. So, like, if you want to start to willfully tolerate something, willfully tolerate that reality. You do not get to decide what emotion to have. You don't you can't decide what emotion to have or not. not have. You can't decide what thought to not have. You can have a thought, you can't decide to not have a thought. Emotions, you can't decide to have or not have any of them. So can I get nerdy for a second? Because I think it matters. So I promise they get a little nerdy. When we look at emotions, most people think that emotions, and for you know a long time we thought this to be true that emotions were reactions. Like somehow or other something happened and there's a special like joy center that turns on in your brain and and bam you feel happy and then your face shows happy face. And we all understand that Josh is happy. But that is not really how this works. We talk all the time these days about how your brain is a prediction engine. Emotions are predictions. They are constructions. They are not reactions. So when your prediction algorithm is primed for problem, which it would be for somebody who's in the midst of OCD or an anxiety disorder, the emotion you experience is most likely what you will call it when your brain predicts that all of these things inside and outside of me are a problem and then you experience a negative emotion because no one calls that good. Like no one no one calls that happy. But in the day when those sensations and those things are not seen as a problem anymore, the prediction engine might say this is not a problem, yet I still feel the same things I call that happy and excited. So you don't get to react properly to Christmas day. You only get to have your brain predict what's going to come next and if it's ready for a problem you're going to get it. That's not a problem. You didn't make that that's not your fault. You just have to work with that and feed back into it like hey this is actually not a problem. And over time it will stop predicting that.

SPEAKER_00 23:39

That's a thing that's so true and really really important. But you know as you were talking that I had this in my head good nerd sound effect.

SPEAKER_02 23:54

I'll take it Homer Stimson Homer Simpson on disorder for it I told you I was going to get nerdy. Okay I'll I'll stop now it's other you have nerd nerd but I think it's so important to recognize that and that is really where so much research and and data is showing us now because it's not your fault. The idea that you think you well I reacted improperly to looking at my child on the swings no you didn't react at all. That was just part of the input that your brain used to predict based on algorithm. And right now it's in the mode where it tends to predict problems. So we're going to have to show it that that's it can adjust. It doesn't have to always predict a problem.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

So yeah yeah get out of that mode you know and even if it's there like if you're going into important days you know family day out there should be I'm I'm I'm missing my children growing up but you're not you're just not optimized. Craig the critic's going going in at you because you you've not optimized the feelings you should be having appropriate to this moment. That's a Craig the critic issue.

SPEAKER_02 25:02

Yeah 100% it's Craig the critic optimized the feelings should be optimized and matched to the circumstances and if they're not I'm doing something wrong.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

I failed what yeah and people apply that to their anxiety disorders and I do I do think that you know one of the questions I get a lot is how long does it take to go overcome an anxiety disorder I'm like it depends on your personal beliefs your esteem your perfectionism your inner critic all these things and one of the big barriers is if you have an optimized perfectionistic mindset in other aspects of your life yeah and then you're trying to apply that to beat and overcome your anxiety disorder to feel certain things that are appropriate in a certain situation it might take you a bit longer.

SPEAKER_02 25:48

Yeah if you're like trying to control every other aspect of your life you can't just be like oh let me just go into mindful acceptance in this little thing. But everything else no I will not accept I will control I will hack I will whatever it's not going to work. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

And also with non-anxious people that's why so many people get like drunk on Christmas Day. It's like oh I cannot be bothered. I I need something to numb the pain of my family members or I choke somebody.

SPEAKER_02 26:15

It could be credit it could be like I cannot take these people a minute longer. Yeah you're right like but those are normal things. You know what's so interesting? There are times when our emotions don't match the context that we would predict have you ever been in a situation where it's you and a friend or a sibling or somebody you have inside humor you have a big history and you are just uncontrollably snickering and giggling and laughing in a time when you are not supposed to now we always understand that's inappropriate but we do we declare that a disaster no but the emotion doesn't match the context but it's okay there. That becomes a good story that you guys tell every time you get together.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

But if I it's the origin of that phrase isn't it sometimes all you can do is laugh. Yeah I've done that when my life my life has been an absolute S show. Yeah oh now now we're censoring now we're family friendly is that it's you you're the potty man I am the party man but anyway I'm the British gentleman you know they wanted to cast me in uh Downton Abbey and and uh what was the other one that salacious one with totally yeah that's it they wanted me and Bridgetton they're like you you'd be perfect for Bridgetton mate they blew it uh that way they would never say that um but like there's been in that time where and I my mum used to say it as well she's like everything's going absolutely yeah party and then you just laugh I just laugh at like how like when things just build up and up and up and the last thing you want to do is laugh but you just do and you feel it as well as like God everything is an absolute mess isn't it yeah yeah but you but like you said that's not an appropriate way to feel but who cares it's just funny.

SPEAKER_02 27:53

Yeah and I think nobody tends to berate themselves for that. If you get to the point where the day is just so bad it's like absurdly bad that you just start laughing at it.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Nobody was like oh I was so terrible I was laughing at a bad day no one will say that no one no no no no yeah at all would would would you like a did it anyway I really would enjoy a did it anyway right now yes especially if I'm a fine British gentleman with good vocal sensibility I'd be described by by at least one person me um hi guys I'm Cooper born and raised in the great state of Maine is that Stephen King country isn't it it is yeah feel free to use my name about two months ago I had a panic attack in air quotes and then in brackets adrenaline rush after a long stretch of piling on school stress day to day anxiety life stress and pretending I was satisfied with my subpar college lifestyle I was out with friends when out of nowhere everything fell off I knew who I was with I knew where I was but I couldn't feel it like my brain hit a weird dimmer switch. For the next month or two I wrestled with that feeling nonstop. I googled analyzed and checked myself every second it was borderline debilitating. What finally changed things was choosing not to fix and find answers to the horrible existential thoughts and feelings of detachment and derealization because nothing was wrong. I was completely convinced I was going crazy so I started challenging those thoughts to make me go crazy. Weirdly enough once I stopped running from the fear and started calling it bluff the whole cycle started to unravel I found anxiety and my inner critic didn't like being challenged it liked being obeyed. My did it anyway moment came this week. The night prior I got a few beers with some friends because that's what non-anxious me would do. The next day was uncomfortable I was anxious. I was deralised and thought I was disintegrating and in an alternate reality how scary in brackets but I did what I needed to do and had a productive day. Since then my confidence has been through the roof and things are getting better day by day. I still have symptoms and feel unreal here and there but hey it's all good. My advice to anyone suffering is to tell your fear to buckle up and hit you as hard as possible because you can and will get shit done regardless. Thanks guys. Oh man Joe Cooper Well done Cooper that's I love that ties in nicely as well to today's theme isn't it so I what I I recognize my friends I know where I am but why do I feel this way? Yeah and now Cooper's on this well on his way to desensitization because he's like well whatever bring it on I'm gonna go and do what non-anxious me would do love it love it love it.

SPEAKER_03 30:46

Yeah they make him good in Maine I appreciate that how about we do another one right away how about an audio okay hi everyone Josh um my name's Kate and I'm from Newcastle you can share my name um thank you so much for what you guys do because me like millions of other people probably wouldn't be where we are today without you guys so thank you so much. I just wanted to share a little bit of uh did it anyway for me well say a little bit big bit I have had recently diagnosed OCD over the last couple of years which has been quite severe to where I don't eat I don't sleep um multiple themes however one that's stuck since I was about seven or eight years old was being fearful of operations and being put to sleep. Funnily enough I fell pregnant last year um and ended up having to have an emergency C section when I give birth so that meant being put to sleep um I glided through it no panic attack no adrenaline no nothing I lay on the bed allowed them to put me to sleep without running away like I always pictured um woke up and I had a baby so I've officially done it and put at the back my degrees and everything this is probably my biggest achievement because I can officially say I've done one of my biggest fears um and that was both being cut open and being put to sleep and I've done it all in one. So yeah I'm very proud of myself but also I want to say a big thank you because I probably wouldn't be the place I am today um mentally for my anxiety if it wasn't for you guys because you're the first people that I've ever related to um and especially you Josh your story your anxiety story r really resonates with me so um yeah thank you so much and please keep doing what you're doing because I listen to all my good days and bad days as I'm sure many people do.

SPEAKER_00 32:41

So thanks again I love that well done you did your big fear and you're more capable than what you thought and I think that's that's brilliant and congratulations on well as well bringing uh a fresh face into the world um no I love that it's made me smile and all warm inside I'm usually dead inside that's really nice thank you Caitlin you you brought Josh back to the living um that's really great like as she corrected herself little did anyway no big did it anyway I always done a little did it anyway so funny little did it anyway no but you know my best moment in that one listening to that was I didn't jump off the table and run.

SPEAKER_02 33:23

Like an anxious mind will say even about to give birth an emergency C-section I will get so anxious I will jump off the table. For those of you about to travel to go see your relatives for Christmas or whatever it is or have to come home you're not gonna open the plane door. You're not gonna pound on the cockpit door like see what anxious minds will say Caitlin did not jump off the table and like slug the doctor and run out of the room.

SPEAKER_00 33:45

Yeah I'm having to be restrained by today is December 28th I had that I I've gone into places my fear of going crazy was so badly that I I go into places but because I'm a big guy my safety behavior was to make sure there was lots of other big guys there because I'm so strong and powerful and out of control that I need at least five six guys to hold me down genuinely a safety behavior from men. Yeah oh yeah I didn't have it for long but I I walk in like if I lost it in here who who's gonna hold me down who's gonna hold me down you're not you're not you're a dweeb you're not those guys will oh my goodness the one behind the bar is like five foot four I'm screwed I'm gonna ruin this joint right yeah I was I was I was pr it was it was a weird thing because in in a sweet way I was kind of protecting the public yeah from the inner monster that was about to come out because of my panic attack I love this Josh is Frankenstein's monster in his panic disorder story like you're legit like just tearing the tavern apart and like tearing people in two and yeah I should get an entourage of security team walking down like whoa why you why do you need all these guys to protect you and I'm like no they're put they're to protect you and it's like a Steven Steven Segal ramp up they're here for you.

SPEAKER_02 35:09

Wow see anxious minds man will make up all kinds of stuff that out of control thing is a real thing. Right now there's a lot of people getting ready you know as we record flying around just assuming they're gonna be duct tape by the air marshals to the the back seat of the plane because their panic attack was so bad. No Caitlyn didn't jump off the table and you'll be okay too we promise so yeah well also that's a good Billy Mays one.

SPEAKER_00 35:33

Like not only did I get knocked unconscious I had a baby. I gave birth and someone cut my stomach open love it that was great I woke up I had a baby wow well talking about did it anyway did a lot of things anyway so I hope that doesn't happen to me anytime soon I wake up and like here's a baby I'm like what my life's just taking a turn wow I really gotta make better choices very very good. All right what else we got on like am I feeling correctly anything no I think the the aim is all feelings are welcome. Do not make anxiety the most important thing in the room don't make any emotion the most important thing in the room just allow it to be there it's the it just it has a nice kind of if they're a nice positive desirable emotion then let it tint your experience but don't even don't make that you know just engage with things yeah and come with and particularly this time of year or whenever you listen to this episode it's okay weddings holidays graduations whatever there is no appropriate thing but you will access the joy the the let the less you resist it and things.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

I guess my final word on this would be just a shout out to our friends who grew up being told to not have emotions this this message is even harder for you. If you were told that your emotions are ruining other people's days and you should just stuff them and not show them and be quiet then it might feel like a risk to allow all emotions but it's okay to take that risk.

SPEAKER_00 37:01

That is a good shout.

SPEAKER_02 37:03

Also a shout out to people that are surrounded by you just think positively let them Mel Robin just go just go buy every book she ever wrote she'll just make you happy instantly she knows everything can't wait for the next trend that she's gonna be anyway stop it.

SPEAKER_00 37:20

We're professional okay um have a lovely thank you to you as well Drew yeah um this will this will probably be the last time we record this year because I'm away big thank you to you as well Drew I am grateful for you and are you still angry with me damn it no it's great another year of disordered in the books and and thank you too my friend like this is one of my favorite hours of the day and and this is a great project that we do together.

SPEAKER_02 37:50

So and for those of you who are listening along putting in reviews on Spotify and Apple Podcasts and stuff thank you we really appreciate you and the time you spend with us and hopefully we're helping and or maybe just entertaining could be the way don't know thanks guys look after yourself and we'll catch you in the new year. Yeah take care