When Anxiety Says You're The Exception (Episode 163)

SPEAKER_03 0:01

The anxiety will tell you that you are the exception is such an accurate description of what the experience is like.

SPEAKER_02 0:08

My thoughts are racing, it feels like going crazy. Well, I don't think I'm going crazy. Yeah, but you are the exception. You are going crazy. Well, you know, Drew and Josh, my therapist says I can handle it. No, you're the exception. You can't handle it.

SPEAKER_03 0:21

Everyone else can, not you. Three key things that fuel that exception possibility, intensity, and importance.

SPEAKER_02 0:28

There is a one in five thousand chance that I will get into a car accident in my lifetime.

SPEAKER_03 0:33

But there's no emotional charge or hit or fear that comes with it. The number you hear is the 5,000. But when you're like freaked out, the number you hear is one, and I'm the one.

SPEAKER_02 0:43

But both things are the same, but anxiety just makes it sound like, oh my god, this is the exception. This is something that you need to work out.

SPEAKER_03 0:53

Welcome to Disordered. This is episode 163. Today we're talking about how anxiety will decide that you are the exception to every rule. Uh, I am Drew Linsalata, one half of Disordered. I am a therapist that specializes in the treatment of anxiety and anxiety disorders, practicing in New York, uh, former sufferer, things like panic disorder, agoraphobia, OCD for many years of my life, better now, an author, psychoeducator, advocate, and podcast co-host with my esteemed friend and partner from across the pond. Who are you, dude?

SPEAKER_02 1:22

Hi, everyone. I'm Joshua Fletcher, also known as Anxiety Josh, uh, and I'm a psychotherapist based in Manchester, a very hot Manchester today. So um I'm having to recall with the window open. Apologies. But if if I shut that window, you would hear me melting into the microphone. Um, yeah, love talking about anxiety. Previous sufferer up in there and talking about kind of evidence-based um professional approach to recovering from anxiety. And today is a good topic episode because everyone with an anxiety disorder will resonate with the fact that anxiety will convince you that you are the exception.

SPEAKER_03 2:02

Yeah, 100%. Before we get into that, how about we start it off with a did it anyway from the community? What do you think? Yeah. All right, let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

Hey, Drew and Josh. My name is Alex. I'm a longtime listener. I've been struggling with agoraphobia for about 14 years. I did recover, but we're back in the trenches again. So uh this past March, my dog died, and then in May, my nana died, and then this past June, three weeks ago, my grandma died. Um, all three months laugh. Two weeks ago, I had to go to my grandma's funeral, which is an hour away. I've been doing exposure therapy and I'm able to drive 20 minutes, so this was a really big jump that I had to take. Um, I, you know, am working with a therapist, did all the prepping work, but came time to go, and I had a panic attack before leaving my house. And then I made it uh 30 minutes into the drive, and I had another panic attack that got me stuck at a Walla for about 30 minutes. I wanted to turn around and go home. Uh, I called my mom crying, and I decided that I wasn't gonna turn around and go home, and I was going to go to my grandma's funeral because it was very important to me to go because I did not go visit her due to my anxiety before she passed, and I regret not doing that. So I missed the entire service, but I still need it, and to give my pop pop, who's still living, a hug was so worth it, and I would do that all over again just to be able to see him. Um, so yeah, that was my did it anyway. I did something that was very hard, and although it didn't go perfect, and although I still, you know, I'm struggling uh with grief and everything in between, but I just wanted to say thank you guys for all that you do, and yeah, that's it. And by the way, you can use my name.

SPEAKER_02 4:06

Good job, Alex. Superb. Um, what a brilliant again, values-driven exposure, uh, and really brave, and it was so lovely to pay respects and commemorate um losing a loved one. Also, like it was such a beautiful exposure as well. Because sometimes, you know, when when I encourage people to do exposures, it's like, you know, put a reward at the end of it, you know, go get yourself an ice cream, go and do this, go do that. But you did it because it was something really important to you, and I suppose the reward was actually having the hug with your pop pop. So well done. And a big well done from us guys that disordered.

SPEAKER_03 4:47

Absolutely, and thank you for sharing that, by the way. Great story. I actually that story rang a bell with me. I had a similar situation where I had to go to the memorial service for a friend who I didn't get to visit when she was in the hospital because I was too scared to do that. So thank you, Alex. That one meant a lot to me personally.

SPEAKER_02 5:03

So there you go. Yeah, and people will beat themselves up for that. No, for it's all good. You know, you know you wanted to, but I think you know, anxiety's tricky. Right. The exception, but are you the exception, Drew?

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Oh, I'm always the exception. I've been the exception since I was born. I I think the exception, the anxiety will will tell you that you are the exception. Is such an accurate description of what the experience is like for most of us who are dealing with it or who have dealt with it. Because it's that thing where when you hear people say things like, yeah, but what about when? If it if we get a question or whatever that that you know starts with, but what about? Or but for me it's you know, when it starts with a but, it's always a oh, that's anxiety making this person the exception. Like, no, no, no, your your thing doesn't, you know, acceptance and tolerance and willful tolerance and floating and whatever words you like doesn't apply to this.

SPEAKER_02 5:57

It takes probability, screws it, warps it, and says it's just not it just turns it to actually, you know, the probability is against you. Yeah. So you know, oh, I have an ache in my side. What if that's cancer? Well, there's a small, very small probability. It is, but you know, absolutely probability is so overwhelmingly on your side that it's not, it's worth leaving it alone. But anxiety will say, No, you're the exception. This is you, yeah. This is absolutely it. Oh, I my thoughts are racing, I feel like going crazy. Well, I don't think I'm going crazy. Yeah, but you are the exception, you are going crazy. Oh, yeah, crap, yeah, yeah. Uh, and and all these different scenarios, you know, like um, oh, you can't go too far away from home because you know, anxiety is overwhelming and you can't handle it. Well, you know, Drew and Josh, my therapist says I can handle it. No, you're the exception, you can't handle it. Everyone else can, not you. Your anxiety is different. Yeah, you know, yeah, but this is a real physical uh problem I have here. I I'm googling it, it could be bad. Well, it's probably not. No, I'm the exception. Anxiety will do that. Why it does that? Because top down, all anxiety is is is a is a doubt response. It will make you doubt. When you try to be rational through a lens of doubt, the projection you shine through a walked lens of doubt is only going to show a doubt scenario on the wall that you project it on. Yeah, you know, when you remove the lens of doubt, you'll see it for what it is. But we try to work things out through the lens of doubt, and all answers just lead to you're the exception.

SPEAKER_03 7:41

Keep an eye on it. Yeah. Actually, it's interesting because I think most people listening would understand that. In the heat of the moment, you act in a way that when you look back after you've if it's passed and you're a little calmer and more rational again, yeah, the doubt lens has been removed, and you could see that your action, like, oh, it hooked me again, it fooled me again, why don't I get it? Why can't I keep doing this? Because in that heat of the moment, you cannot you can't logic your way through the doubt. You have to have a plan going in. I I think the exception is you know you I'm listening to you talking, I'm like, I think there might be three key things that fuel that exception, and that is a possibility. You're right. Anxiety will take possibility and turn it into probability. It doesn't know the difference between those two things. Possibility, uh intensity and importance. So uh if what my fear is focused on an important issue, then the exception uh thing will kick in, like, yeah, but somebody, somebody goes crazy and jumps off this bridge. So it it could be you. But I don't want to jump, I have a family, I have I have responsibilities, I can't leave my kids behind. It's too important. Intensity is oh my god, it feels like so strong, it's so powerful in the moment. And that will trick you into believing the you're the exception, and then probability. If it's probable, that's all anxiety needs. I mean, if it's possible, all it needs is possibility. But if somebody today is gonna get decapitated by a flying hubcap, it could be you. Like, what?

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Yeah, but also makes you feel urgent as well. It's the other thing urgent when something feels urgent, you don't it the probability doesn't matter. Yep. Now think about this, you know, like oh, I don't know. There is a one in five thousand chance that I will get into a car uh uh accident in my lifetime. Yeah, there's a one in five thousand chance I'll be in a car accident, okay? Or putting the putting the uh the urgency in it, there's a one in five thousand chance you're gonna get hit by a car now. Yeah, well, it's like yeah, one in five thousand you're gonna get hit by same thing, same probability, but the urgency makes it sound like it's about to happen. Anxiety will make it you sound like it's about to happen now, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:46

You know, like you know, like yeah, when there's no emotional charge or hit or fear that comes with it, the number you hear is the five thousand. But when you're like freaked out, the number you hear is one and I'm the one. Like, but it's not zero, it's one and I could be the one.

SPEAKER_02 10:03

It's urgent to take take existential OCD or existential anxiety, existential thoughts. Yeah, we are but a speck in an infinite cosmos, yeah. Where the light we are seeing are from stars that died a thousand years ago. There is no such thing as a flat surface or a finite point in time, there is no such thing as a coordinate. We are just floating around wonderfully in space, revolving around the sun, dancing with other planets. It's wonderful. Then you can press the urgent button from anxiety. We're floating around in the eternal nothingness, and nothing means anything, and we're gonna die and we're out of state. That's right. It's the same thing. Yeah, just it's just the urgency. It's like you need to work this out. No, no, no, no, no. But both things are the same, but anxiety just makes it sound like, oh my god, this is the exception. This is something that you need to work out.

SPEAKER_03 10:57

Yeah, and maybe it's the urgency and the importance, like, but and people will argue, like, yeah, but what about when like that's real, but that's real, like you're right, we're just floating in space and there is no gravity, it's just curvature of space-time, and oh my god, and they're freaking out. And like, I know, but that still doesn't make an exception to you're not an exception just because you've realized that or you're fixated on that right now. Like, it's doesn't matter. We all think of that. Yes, we all do think of that. You're really freaked out by it right now, but it doesn't mean that you're justified in trying to solve it. I think the you know, okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:27

What about people with OCD that are very emotionally attached to their rituals? Yes, they are and there's always everyone with OCD who does particularly outwards rituals, um, they always get attached to one. I've done this now. We've been working for 10 years now as a therapist. Yeah, and every time you get an OCD, not every time, but there's an OCD client, and bear in mind, very brave, very brilliant. And when you work people with OCD, and they're really good at you know, like challenging ERP, you know, challenging rituals, stopping them, you know, things, noticing them, stopping them. But there's always that one. They're like, no, no, I can do them all except that I can't, I have to do that one. That's the exception. If I can't do that, then I can't function.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:12

That's the exception. That makes me the exception. It's like, we found the main one. Yeah. We found the main one for ERP. And they're like, no, I hate you, Josh. It's like, yeah, I hate me too, but let's do it.

SPEAKER_03 12:22

That's irrelevant right now. No, that's actually true. There's the one compulsion that I need to hang on to. It's usually if if the person keeps saying, Yeah, but I have to, but I have to. Oh wait, how come you you don't have to do the other ones, but you still have to do this one? I think that also whether it's an actual compulsion or ritual in OCD, or it's or it's uh an issue, like a life issue, that the exception is no, no, no, that's a real thing. We in health anxiety we see it as somebody who has a medical condition, and uh a real medical condition, it warrants attention or and and managing or whatever. Health anxiety will be like okay, but see, it's real. So therefore, all the rules around health anxiety, you are the exception because you actually have a medical issue or you you have a procedure coming up. And it will insist So the right thing to do is to fixate and obsess about it to the point of being frantic during every waking hour that's correct to do because the issue is important. And just because, again, importance is a thing, it may be an important issue, but it doesn't mean that your strategy is you know, the strategy that anxiety suggests is still not a good strategy even for this important issue. Yet it will claim No no no this is a good strategy because you you're different than them. You actually have a problem. So that that's a tough one too. Yeah, that's a tough one too.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

But yeah, absolutely, absolutely. No, I uh completely agree with Helm. Would you like a community uh when here we go? Yeah, bring it up. Here this one is from from Joe. Hi Josh and Drew, my name is Joe Joanna. Feel free to use it. I just wanted to share my did it anyway. I've had a few health issues come about at the same time recently, including an early miscarriage. I was booked to go on holiday this last week, and logical me said, I need this. But fast forward to day two, and my anxious, illogical brain named Terry, the middle-aged trucker, decided to wake up and try yanking the steering wheel and navigating how the day was going to go. My system wanted to go into freeze flight mode and I felt very uncomfortable. Standard British coastal holiday. We were playing on the two oh yeah, standard British coastal holiday, we were playing on the two P slot machines, they're amazing, with my toddler when it all got a bit loud, a bit crowded, and I wanted to run as I felt uncomfortable and on the verge of panic. Rather than follow Terry and run away and sit with in my feelings, I decided to lean into uncertainty, allow it to be there, but not let it control. I decided to move to a quieter area and try a more mentally challenging machine, the grabber. Told my fiance that I was feeling a bit wonky, but would be okay in a minute. Then I came back. We discussed lunch options and went off for a walk along the seafront. Before I knew it, the anxious feeling had passed and I hadn't ran from it. I allowed it to be there but not take over. I didn't let it become the most important thing in the room. Yes, you know how I love that. Brilliant. I feel proud of myself because a couple of years ago I would have immediately wanted to go home, cry, hyperfixate on bodily sex sensations, overanalyze it. Now I'm not saying I've learned how to perfectly handle Terry or erase it completely, but I'm getting better at not resisting the feelings and they surface and not giving it my attention. I always challenge Terry by continuing what I was doing on my own terms, and I feel so better equipped to deal with it when it does pop up. Sorry for the sirens. Um that's Manchester. Um, and that in that is in part from the information you guys share with the anxious community. Thank you for everything you share and for the safe and relaxed way in which you deliver it. Well done, Joanne.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

Absolutely. I love that Terry even has a backstory, middle-aged trucker. It's really good. You know, I kind of think about that little tool there. It's a little disrespectful, and we want that. Like my anxiety is an angry, disgusting middle-aged trucker named Terry. Good. That's a little disrespectful. Use it. And she did. Really great.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

Yeah. Also, if we have any middle-aged truckers, uh, particularly Terry, that's cool, man. You can throw shade back.

SPEAKER_03 16:42

Oh, yeah. Yeah, it's okay. That's exactly right. Sorry, any Terries that are listening, but uh, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:48

No, no, that's cool. Uh no, really well done. Um, I love that you didn't make it the most important thing. And you believed in yourself, which is really lovely.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:56

And I think that's what we wanted.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

You know, uh Joanne talking about how she felt that urge. I felt the urge to run. That's that's the moment where exception starts to creep in a little bit. Like, all right, what do they talk about in that podcast? Or what does my therapist say? Yeah, but this time, this time is the time. This is the exception. You won't be able to handle it. You will melt down, you will be, I don't know, permanently insane. No, you know, she saw that and like, no, no, no, that's the moment. This is the moment where I gotta lean in, and really well done, very well done. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

For me personally, I remember I thought the my exception is that no, if I put myself in this scenario, it will break me. I will go into breaking point. Yeah. And yeah, and and and even though it's never happened before, and I know what it is, and I've actually tolerated everything anxiety, and life has thrown me up until this moment, no, that's the exception.

SPEAKER_03 17:48

It could be Yeah, the exception could be, and see, I love that because the exception could be sort of global. It's the exception that persists across anxious moments or in any given anxious moment. So it's not always like, oh, you know, well, I fear heart attack, and I think that because I do, my grandpa had a heart attack, so therefore I'm an exception, and anxiety will tell me that I'm supposed to, you know, not the but also, oh, this time it's too much, can't too much slash can't handle becomes the exception. This time it will break you. This time, this is the exception. This is the one that is going to be too much. This is the thought, this is the sensation, this is the fear that will be too much at this time. This is the exception. All the other times that you handle it, mm-hmm, this one is the exception right here. Those don't count. So I think you have to be careful of that because it will whisper in your ear, like, but that's what mine was.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

When I was anxious, yeah, that's what mine was.

SPEAKER_03 18:39

Yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_02 18:40

Am I going crazy? No, no, it's anxiety, it's normal. Yeah, but you're the exception. Yep. Yeah keep an eye on it. And and that always follows that it always follows up anxiety, doesn't it? No, this is the exception. Yours the ex the exception. And taking it with uh OCD themes as well, like, no, this theme isn't particularly an OCD. No, though this theme is the exception. Yeah, no, this is the wrong one. No, this is the I would take any other OCD theme and trade it with someone else. Uh-huh. No, yours is not the exception. Yep.

SPEAKER_03 19:08

Which is good news. And when people like you and I say stuff like that, especially in a public forum, sometimes it's pushback, like it sounds invalidating or unkind. But you want, you don't want to be the exception. You do everybody's special. Uh I'm a fan of that. We're all special in our Josh, God knows you're special. But like we're all special in our own way.

SPEAKER_02 19:26

I like the green trail.

SPEAKER_03 19:27

But you do right. But we you don't want to be special in this one. This is not special isn't a thing to hug and hang on to in this situation because it will it will do you dirty. No, no, no, but but mine is special, it's not really a thing. I I think that holds true even with um people. There's somebody in our studio audience, which I know you guys, the app seems a little wonky today, they're saying, but hang in there. Uh, who said this person finds it easy to practice acceptance with physical symptoms, but thoughts, uh, that's the exception. There's they just feel so powerful and they're in my own head, and therefore the so thoughts, no, I acceptance is harder with thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

You know, yeah, yeah, yeah. I hear you on that. Yeah. I hear you on that.

SPEAKER_03 20:07

Um what else? Well, we could listen to another did it anyway before I forget to play it. Yeah, I'm enjoying them.

SPEAKER_02 20:14

Please send them in by the way, disordered.fm.

SPEAKER_03 20:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:17

Uh you can send in your did it anyways on voicemail, or you can message them in and um, or you can put them in the Did It Anyway forum on the app. Uh, we love reading them. But what we got, Drew?

SPEAKER_03 20:29

Oh, here's one.

SPEAKER_00 20:31

Hi, Josh and Drew. My name is Dan. You can use my name. I just wanted to share a Did It Anyway, because I think it's um probably the most progress I've ever made, or feels like I've made in the last couple of years, and that's following you guys, listening to your podcast, reading the health anxiety book, which is what I tend to struggle with the most. So I recently had to go to a family event at St. Paul's Cathedral, um, drove up from Cormall, where I live, up to London with my family for about a four and a half hour drive. Um, knew I was gonna have to get the tube a couple of times, stay overnight for a couple of nights, which would make me really uncomfortable. But I did it anyway. It was in the middle of this heat wave we had recently, so it was like 40 degrees. Um, the tube going in, he even did like an emergency stop because it was a signal fault and then travelled really slowly. Um, the ceremony was two and a half hours. I did sit relatively close to an exit, but still pushed through. Um, didn't just leave afterwards, actually. Went to the pub, which was sort of unplanned for me. I'd planned to just go straight back to the house, then got the tube again, which was like 12 stops, and it was the busiest tube I've ever been on in my life, and just so many people getting on it. Um, no air con and every stop I wanted to get off, but I I stayed on it and then stayed overnight again, and then drove home four and a half hours, and nothing happened to me. There was no health issues, um, and it was perfectly fine. And I've just been pushing myself more recently to do all the things that I feel that make me uncomfortable in spite of my anxiety, and it's It's making progress, so thank you to you guys for everything you do. The the podcast really helps. The the health anxiety book has really helped me endlessly. Um, yeah, and just for anyone else out there that's really struggling, that it will get better with time, and you just need to keep going. Thanks everyone.

SPEAKER_02 22:19

Dan, bringing the heat. Dan, that's outstanding. Um, not only the drive from Cornwall to London is enormous. Um the the tube in any temperature, particularly 30, 40, whatever in London, is a horrible place to be. If you can do that, you can do anything, honestly. Uh I I said that to me. I can do the tube in the Paris Metro, the old Paris Metro. If you can do that in that heat, you can do anything. And then you went to the ceremony for two hours hours, and then you went to the pub. Billy Mays was there saying, Oh, you're not done yet. No, you can do all these things. So good. Um, that's outstanding. Also, my mum rang me this morning. She's off to Bude in Cornwall today for the for a nice meal and stuff like that. It's a lovely part of the world down there. But well done, Dan.

SPEAKER_03 23:13

Very good. And thanks for sharing, man. Appreciate it. By the way, thanks for the plug for the book, The Disorder Guide to Health Anxiety. I hear it's pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 23:19

It's a really good book. I've read it, honestly. It's well good.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

I read it. I couldn't finish it. I I tried.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Uh the disorder guide to health anxiety. You can get it on Amazon. Um, it's helping Dan, it's helped lots of people. That's a lovely reviews. Um yeah, and if you if you struggle with health anxiety, go read it. Why not? Or use it to balance that table that's been wonky for a while. Multiple uses.

SPEAKER_03 23:42

That's what my copy is doing right now.

SPEAKER_02 23:45

Oh, it's interesting because there's a copy of your book that's keeping my desk. I prop it up under the garbage bin to keep the keep it from I'm tearing pages up to the sweat on my head.

SPEAKER_03 24:00

I walked right into that. Oh god. I should know better by now. Really, I should. Oh I am going 7%. I can't stop sweating. This book is really helpful for that. Uh somebody in the studio audience mentions Dementophobia as their exception. It's definitely an exception, right? That's the fear of it.

SPEAKER_02 24:22

It was my it was mine as well. Dementophobia. No, you will go crazy. Yeah. No, you will have a you do you will have a psychotic break, you'll do that, you'll push yourself. But you you you're not seeing anxiety for it is an adrenaline threat response is nothing to do with that part of the brain.

unknown 24:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:38

Also, that was really assuring when I read that. So, can I push myself to a psychotic break? Not really, unless it's like highly traumatic. But yeah, but even you you've had panic attacks, and yeah, but panic attacks are traumatic. Yes, they are, but not really. Right. Like, they're not traumatic in the sense of the brain has to compute multiple dangerous things at once, you know, that that it doesn't have time to commute, compute. So, like anyway, if you're in a car crash or something like that, something all's gonna happen. No, you know what this panic attack is, it's actually not new, yeah. It just feels really intense. Yes, it's deeply unpleasant. And yeah, I I wouldn't dismiss someone saying it's it's traumatic because my first ever one was quite traumatic. But that is that type of anxiety is not linked to you suddenly snapping, yeah. You know, but again, anxiety will convince you you're the exception. Yeah, but you remember you had a cousin or your uncle, he was he he was anxious, she was anxious, she and then you remember she she had a she decided what if that happens to you? Completely different, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

It will declare exception just randomly, and it doesn't have to obey any sort of rules of reality or logic. It's really convenient to be an anxious brain because you can make up anything you want, and you can never be wrong, which is really cool. Like, I want that job.

SPEAKER_02 25:54

You'll poison you'll poisoned orange juice or whatever it was.

SPEAKER_03 25:56

That's exactly right. It can make up anything it wants anytime. It does not have to obey the laws of physics or reality, and it it sounds really convincing because it's a loud voice coming from inside you. That is true. But it still doesn't mean and and then it will start to hunt, so it will hijack your ability to be critical and then hunt for tiny little misinterpreted, out-of-context shreds of evidence that the it is correct, the exception is right. Uh how about the friend, anybody who's dealing with panic and anxiety, we all know that the dentist chair and an aircraft appear to be the two top things that nobody wants to do. I get it, nobody wants to fly. We had Dave Carbonell on and we did an episode on that. And it's always it's not the I'm afraid the plane will crash. It's I'm gonna be the person that snaps, tries to open that door of the aircraft and jump out at 35. I'm gonna attack the cockpit, uh, they're gonna need to duct tape me to the sea, the air marshals will have to like subdue me with a taser. And then wait, well what? Wait, where does that come from? Yeah, but it feels like it's it's I'm gonna snap and do that in the plane. And then the anxious brain will support the exception. You're the one exception to the rule by saying, Yeah, but what about those videos on YouTube where the dude I'm like, yeah, he had 17 Scotch and sodas in the airport lounge and he was hopped up on Coke and his wife just left left him. Like, you don't know that part, but your brain likes hey, it happens. That could be me. It could be that guy, it can happen, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Yeah, yeah. It was um anxiety's the exception. Um, also, like really funny. I don't I forgot to tell Dave Carbonell this, but it's it's about the anxiety making the exception. In that brilliant book, Dave Carbonell's Fear of Flying workbooks, really good. Um he says there's two types of fearful flyers, you know, people who are afraid of the plane crashing, or like most people, people becoming overwhelmed and claustrophobic, feel feeling like they're gonna lose control. Yeah, you know, and it's fine. And then the media doesn't know the people with anxiety disorders, and particularly that like, but but I'm both. I'm afraid of the plane crashing and going through just I'm the exception. I've got both. Yeah, I can't get on that plane.

SPEAKER_03 28:03

It's like yeah, or or my famous one was I'm gonna be not only am I afraid of losing it on the plane or the plane crashing, I'm afraid that me losing it will be why the plane crashes. Because I'm gonna storm the cockpit, subdue the cabin crew, like pitch us into the ground, I'm just in a in a you know, a panic mess. I'm just gonna we're going down. And man, your anxiety, an anxious brain can make up the most vivid, horrible, like, no, it can't be that way. Somebody, somebody I have to put it.

SPEAKER_02 28:34

And because it feels urgent, yeah, we misconstrue that as it being real. Yes, when people say it feels real. In fact, we should probably do an episode on this.

SPEAKER_03 28:42

It feels so real, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:43

It feels real, no, it feels urgent, right?

SPEAKER_03 28:46

Or it feels intense and urgent, and that makes you think that it's real.

SPEAKER_02 28:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's it. I I looking back through all of my anxiety, every time I said, but it feels real. Actually, looking back, it felt urgent. Yeah, it felt urgent, and I needed an answer or something, or to believe something urgently. Yep, because this way I felt didn't make sense.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

Yeah. I mean, I felt very convinced that it was an overwhelmingly strong emotion that the New York Rangers would win more than one Stanley Cup in my lifetime. And it turns out that was wrong. Like, so like we are wrong all the time that a sense of urgency or that you have intense emotions all the time that you recognize are wrong, and you recognize them in other people. You know, when somebody is is is speaking crap to you that you know is crap, but they're so charged up about it, often you will say things like, dude, just take a breath, calm down. Like, let's be reasonable. So you can see how their emotional state is causing them to say nonsense. But when it's your own emotional state, you can't see through it. It's like, no, no, no, no, I am the exception. It's gonna be this is the one that makes me crazy. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

And the lens goes on, the lens of doubt.

SPEAKER_03 29:53

Yep, it's really crazy, right? So somebody in the studio audience said, I'll stab my dentist. I've heard that one too. Like, I can't go to the dentist because what if I start throwing punches at the person cleaning my teeth?

SPEAKER_02 30:04

Oh, the most common one is what if I bite down on the finger?

SPEAKER_03 30:06

Yep. What if I bite the dentist's finger off? What if I'm getting the shot and I bite and the needle, I had somebody once say, What if the needle goes up through my palate and into my eye? Like very specific, right? Very specific. Now, in retrospect, they can laugh at that, but in the moment that felt like a very real possibility. The minute that needle went in there, the all the only image that they had in their brain was, I'm gonna bite down, it's gonna be a whole thing, and somehow the needle will stay up my eye. Like, but that's an anxious mind. Like, this is the exception, you know.

SPEAKER_02 30:34

So it's really I bite my dentist's fingers because I want to.

SPEAKER_03 30:38

It's not even it's not even a thing, it's not even anxiety thing. It's not even anxiety. It's fine. Uh he's Josh is banned from every dentist in the north of the UK. It's just really getting inconvenient now. Um, yeah, going fear all on the plane and hijacking it. Yeah, sure. So and meanwhile, this person says that was their fear, but then they slept through the flight, right? Yeah, that's so fun. That's so funny. Yeah, the exception to the rule. Uh let me do a uh a did it anyway from the community because there was a really good one that I want to share. Um, it's pretty short, but I think it's pretty cool. Uh where is it? It's over here. We won't use anybody's name, so if you want to post in the app, you're free to do that. Uh, this is from a pretty new member. My first did it anyway here. I almost never stop to recognize my did it anyways, as I tend to feel like this shouldn't be challenging for me anymore. So I will try it here to give myself some credit for doing a hard thing. That's a win right there. Just that part, right? So today I didn't sleep much and I felt anxious all day long, having intrusive thoughts, feelings of dread, but it didn't prevent me from going out to a campfire cookout with my girlfriend and her little sister. No phone, no distractions. It was very challenging being with my thoughts and ugly feelings. It was very messy as I felt like I was completely sucked at not giving anxiety my attention. But who cares? I did it anyway, and that's good enough for now. That's a huge step forward right there.

SPEAKER_02 32:02

I love that. I really like that. Yeah, yeah, it's compassionate as a the problem was in the first sentence, isn't it? It's like I shouldn't be having this.

SPEAKER_03 32:10

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

This isn't just no, no, no, no. Your brain, the threat response, has been wired to think that's a threat. So that is an exposure. There's no like conventional exposures that you should be at. If your fear of bonds is kicking off, then that's the bravery. Yeah, literally, quite literally. My good friend Sarah has a fear of polystyrene.

unknown 32:31

Really?

SPEAKER_02 32:31

Yes, she's yeah, oh god, shouldn't have but fear. Well, you do, yeah, and I see how brave you are when you approach that and doing exposures and stuff with polystyrene. Doing really well, and yeah, from out the from the outside, when people can't relate, they're like, Yeah, that's silly. But you know what fear and terror feels feels like. And everyone's got their own fear, threats, and vices, and well done. And as a therapist, genuinely, I don't I don't see the difference between someone getting on a plane for the first time and someone just going walking to the shop for the first time. It's the same fear to me. I don't know what you how you see it.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

No, I I agree with that 100%. Fear is fear, it doesn't matter what the trigger is of the context. If you're afraid, then you're doing something brave and and if you can take a lesson from it, you're doing something really good for yourself. But that's you know, I think maybe where we could put that last, you know, application of the exception thing, which is you are your not your anxiety is different. Yes, it will say things like, But yeah, but nobody feels the way I do, or nobody else is afraid of this. Like you are the exception because you're the only one. I'm the only one that has this fear. I'm the only one that has it this intense. No one else is as scared as me. No one else has overcome what I have to overcome. So like that's on a like a meta-level, it will insist that your case is different. Nobody's as bad as me.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

But I have an anxiety disorder and I'm neurodivergent. I have an anxiety disorder and ADHD. I have anxiety disorder and trauma. Yep. I have an anxiety disorder and OCD and depression and grief and gambling addiction. I have an anxiety disorder, and and look at it, anxiety will get you to make you think that it's your narrative is the exception to the way I the where I'm at in the world in life, I can't do it because here's all the stumbling blocks.

SPEAKER_03 34:17

One of the things I found most interesting, and I'm not surprised by it, but when I started practicing was the number, the sheer number of my therapy clients who at some point, usually in the beginning, which may be a function of the fact that you and I are strange therapists, that we have this audience that come with us a little bit, but have you have but but have you ever seen anybody that was as bad as me? But have you ever had anybody like me that can be a good one? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

And I always just go, no, you're you're you're the one.

SPEAKER_03 34:42

And we laugh a little bit, but like, yeah, I'm like, oh, definitely not. You I'm gonna write a book about you, you know. So we laugh.

SPEAKER_02 34:47

But I'm only seeing you to challenge myself as a character. Wow, no one would take you off.

SPEAKER_03 34:53

Yeah, and it it's such a common thing. Like, I think every anxious person at some point in the dark moments when it's really hard and struggling, will listen to that voice that says, You're worse than everybody else. Or what about somebody who's been anxious for years? But what about this person says my Instagram name is I'm the worst. That that was that my day is not gonna get any better than that comment right there. I just pack it in right now. But like, yeah, anxiety will whisper that in here. That doubt thing, it's a doubt about yourself, your capability, your quality as a person. Like, no, you're never gonna get better. This that you're the exception. I know they say millions of people get better using this, but you can't. Too bad. You're worse too many years, too much. So, you know, listen to it.

SPEAKER_02 35:35

Oh, yeah, with time is what I've had this for 20 years. I you can't help me. No, you're not the exception. Yeah, you're not special, as we often say here. Yeah. I love saying that in my practice. Everyone, it's the only kind of profession where like you say to someone, you're not special, and you're not the exception. Everyone's like, Oh, thank God for that.

SPEAKER_03 35:52

Right, you don't want to be special. Like in all other parts of your life, I love your specialist. And this one I promise, you don't want to be special. You want me to diss your specialness. I have somebody who, and you know, and and I think it's uh, you know, this person has been at it for 18 plus years, and I I'm gonna be fired soon because she's almost done. She's good. And she she had that exception thing glued to her for a very long time. Like, no, it's been too long, it's been too long. You've never seen anybody this bad for this long. And sure enough, we're getting to that point where you just know as a therapist, like, yeah, our time is coming to an end soon. As soon as she recognizes it. But so yeah, don't listen to that. You're never gonna get better, you're worse than everybody else, but no one gets as scared as me. Or I get scared over things that no one else does. That is simply not true. Simply not true.

SPEAKER_02 36:35

Amen to that.

SPEAKER_03 36:36

Anyway, I will get off my soapbox, but I think people need to hear it. What else? Ask. I think we're good. No? 38.

SPEAKER_02 36:42

I think we're good for that. Yeah, no, uh, another plug for the health anxiety book, another plug for the disordered community app. Uh, I'm gonna schedule in a uh QA over the weekend to pop in with the with the community, which would be really nice. Um yeah, follow us on socials. I'm anxiety Josh. Jew is the.anxious dot truth. Um, if you like the video aspect of some of the basics, um, I've got the panic pod, I've just like 10-20 episodes, not very long if you've not got long. If you want to hear great jokes, go back to if you've not oh, by the way, if you've joined us on disordered, go back uh through and go go through some of like some of the main episodes, particularly the first 20-30, uh, where we cover like quite a lot of the important principles. Uh, I highly recommend that. Uh also I highly recommend enjoying your weekend. Yeah, you're allowed to live your life.

SPEAKER_03 37:37

Yeah, give it a shot, man. So thanks for hanging out. We'll do it again next Friday.