Did It Anyway - Volume 3 (Episode 100)

SPEAKER_06 0:01

Celebrate bravery, courage, applying the principles of this podcast.

SPEAKER_00 0:05

Today was only my third class coaching. Normally, we have somebody helping out. He asked if I could do it on my own. I was like, okay, pretty much panicked the whole two hours beforehand, but made it through the class, super proud of myself. Definitely a win.

SPEAKER_01 0:18

He asked me if he wanted to go with the three kids, and I knew that we would be there for a good hour, and I had the anticipatory anxiety, but I did it anyway. Got in the car with him. We went for an extra long walk around and got an ice cream for the children.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

During my session, I started to feel panicky and I had the oh no. And in that moment, I decided to make a choice. I wanted to rip everything off, run out, and instead I stayed. And it's the first time I've ever allowed myself to just load through one of these. And I didn't, and I finished my session.

SPEAKER_06 0:52

Welcome to Disordered. It's episode 100. One double zero. I have managed to willfully tolerate and surrender to the uncomfortable feelings of co-hosting a podcast with my esteemed co-host Drew Linzolata. If you've made it to episode 100, well done too. Wow, we're at 100. I'm Joshua Fletcher, also known as Anxiety Josh, and I'm a psychotherapist who specializes in anxiety. I write books on it, and I record 100 episodes of a podcast on it.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

And I'm joined by Drew Linzolata in New York in the U.S. I'm the guy that has had the privilege of torturing Josh for a hundred whole episodes over the course of two years. It's about two years now. So that's impressive. Um I'm also a therapist specializing in the practice of anxiety and anxiety disorders or the treatment of anxiety and anxiety disorders, a former sufferer of these very same problems. Blah, blah, blah. You know all the deal. Like today, we're gonna celebrate you guys in a hundred episodes. So you don't need to know any more about me, that's for damn sure. So, what are we gonna do today? 100 episodes.

SPEAKER_06 1:56

100 episodes. We were talking before about what how we should celebrate 100 episodes, and it's the community. So we've done these episodes in the past, did it anyways, from the community where we just celebrate bravery, courage, applying the principles of this podcast. And yeah, if you find inspiration from listening to other people overcoming adversity, then yeah, you can uh tune in here. Drew and I will sit back as if we're in a uh sports pundit studio, and we will analyze um the the offense and defense, and um we will yeah, just just use the episode as a thank you. And yeah, the attention needs to be on you guys because thank you for supporting us and things.

SPEAKER_03 2:38

Yeah, it's been actually really fun. This is a fun thing to do for two years with you. So I I like recording every week, it's cool.

SPEAKER_06 2:45

Me too, man. It's one of my favorites, and thank you so much. Yeah, cool. Should we uh well, should we dive in with an audio or should we dive in with a written?

SPEAKER_03 2:52

Uh let's see. Let's do an audio one. Before we start playing these and reading these, the thing I would probably remind everybody is like, yes, these could be inspirational. If you feel like, oh, why are all these people getting it and why am I not? That's kind of normal. Listen to the part where almost everybody is surprised that they were able to do a thing that they did. That's probably the big takeaway in a dead anyway. Almost everybody that sends these in will tell us, like, I can't believe I did it. Because they they were you two once. They also didn't believe it was possible, but yet here they are. So let's listen to the first one. It's a good one.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

Hey guys, my name is Maggie. Been listening to you guys for about a year now, ever since I had my first panic attack. I've always struggled with anxiety, OCD, but um, the panic, agoraphobia, driving anxiety, it's all been super fun the past year. So you guys have been super helpful, especially talking about just letting the anxiety be there, trying not to do all the breathing techniques, etc. Um, wanted to share a win. I started training to be a fitness coach as a second job just for fun. Um, and today was only my third class coaching. Normally we have somebody helping out for the first five to six classes. She asked if I could do it on my own. I was like, okay. Pretty much panicked the whole two hours beforehand about if I had a panic attack in class, had to stop class, etc. Um, I definitely was in a very, very high anxiety state, I'd say up to right when people walked in the class and still on and off, but made it through the class, super proud of myself. Um definitely a win. So yeah, thanks. Thanks for all you guys do. It's very much appreciated.

SPEAKER_06 4:37

Yeah, Maggie. Well done, Maggie. Uh, the fitness class as well. Well done. And the more you do it, the more confident you'll get. Uh, excellent.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

That's true. Favorite part about that one: the breathing exercises. Trying not to do the breathing exercises. That's a counterintuitive thing. And I love that, Maggie. Thank you for sharing that. Like Maggie is learning how to how to deal with her anxiety without finding ways to forcibly calm it down. So I love that she mentioned that. I'm trying to find a way to work through them without doing all the things. So very well done.

SPEAKER_06 5:11

Yeah, it's great. If you're using breathing exercises, make sure you're doing it to not get rid of something you fear. If you're stressed, do breathing. I do. I do 20 breaths when I'm stressed. If I'm doing it to urgently get rid of a feeling, then no, it's counting it has the counterproductive effect. Thanks, Maggie, for starting us off. Uh superb. Uh, I've got a written one. You ready? Bring it. Okay. Hi, Josh and Drew. I've been suffering from disordered anxiety, panic disorder, and every symptom that comes with that for about 13 years. I wanted to share, I did it anyway, with you guys. I loathe going shopping in any kind of store because it sets off my symptoms. The fluorescent lights, the noise, all the people, my fiance. Oh, sorry, my fiance, my grown daughter, and her friend.

SPEAKER_04 6:01

I thought she was like saying that her fiance and grown daughter. Tough room. Anyway.

SPEAKER_06 6:10

So that was my dictation there. My fiance, my grown daughter, and her friend wanted me to go do some Christmas shopping with them. And I wanted to go, but I was already getting panicky, just getting ready to go. I reluctantly ended up going, and we ended up at a store that had a whole bunch of shoes. I decided to try on a god-awful pair as a joke, and soon enough we were all finding the ugliest pairs we could find and walking around and just cracking up for about an hour. I couldn't believe it. I'm sure my symptoms were still there, but I was so engrossed with the shenanigans that I hardly noticed. Usually, when I do go shopping, I'm in and out as fast as I can due to my symptoms. I've even left a full shopping cart and ran out of the store before.

SPEAKER_03 6:58

Wow, that is so great.

SPEAKER_06 7:02

And we're over to our uh in-house expert there. What was so good about that play? Well, first of all, the ugly shoes.

SPEAKER_03 7:09

I don't know why that guy cracks me up. Here's what I love about that one. And I have my pen in my hand, like they do on like the NFL today. They always have a pen. I don't know what they write, but they always have pens in their hands. So what I love about that one is yes, was it distracting? Sure was. Did this person intentionally try to distract herself or himself? I don't know. No, it doesn't seem like it. It was just sort of a thing where, like, well, this kind of came up, and then we got caught up in it. And when I look back on it, I could see that, like, oh, maybe my symptoms were there, but it was not impactful because I was spending my time on this ugly shoes, which I love. So, like, if you are thinking that I have to distract myself, I have to distract myself, I got to do something to distract myself. How about just skipping to the part where it's okay if you actually get anxious? Instead of like, oh, I hope I don't get anxious. And if I do, I have to find a way to distract myself, just jump to the end. Like, oh, if I distract myself, I don't notice it. So, what does that tell me about being worried about being anxious?

SPEAKER_06 8:06

Yeah, exactly. Uh, I loved it. Um, I'm talking about this in my uh upcoming TED talk. Me and the guys at TED, you know, we got the thing going. Me and my um we're talking about the autonomic state shift where you cannot ever observe the moment of the autonomic state shift, i.e., when you switch from fight or flight to rest and digest, you can't observe it. So when a lot of us got use the inward compulsion and we're monitoring, threat monitoring, scannering, scanning, obsessing of symptoms, we're doing it to try and force or hope for this autonomic state shift. And yet, when you pick up a pair of shoes and start messing around and doing what non-anxious you would start doing, it does it in the background, and that's what I love about it. Uh, well done, really good. And uh, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

The creativity of we're gonna try an ugly shoes. I cannot admire that any more than I already do. That's really cool.

SPEAKER_06 9:06

It's good because you're doing it today, aren't you, Drew?

SPEAKER_03 9:09

I wear ugly shoes every day. Since I don't even try them on, I buy them. So that's your advice. Sutton Carmoon called He Wants His Shoes Black. I got my Wizard of Oz Ruby slippers on today, as it turns out. So you guys never see that. Um, well done. Thanks for sharing. I have a did it anyway, I can read, and then we'll go back to audio. So here's a good one. This is from Amy, who said it was okay for you to use her name. She says, Guys, I think you cured my anxiety disorder. I've been listening to Drew for a while and then was also an avid, avid listener of disordered. One thing that may be helpful for others, when you get to the point where you are having a wicked high anxiety attack and you don't Google or talk about it or try to solve it in any way, you still feel like absolute shit. This is great. Um, it's like keeping your hand in a flame while at the same time telling yourself that it will heal the burn. And logically knowing that's what you need to do is all you have to go on because you need to ignore your instincts, which is very difficult. Every time I did that, I did not feel better and it didn't like I didn't feel like I was doing anything other than suffering. But this is the key. One day I noticed that my body had a weird sensation that I used to think was a catastrophic illness, and I didn't react. It was so weird to wait for the anxiety surge that never came. That kept happening, a non-response from my amygdala. And I was looking for it too. Then weeks went by and I haven't compulsively been listening to your podcast. Bittersweet because I love you both dearly and your humor makes my day. But I do take credit for enduring the torture that is the recovery process because I could never afford therapy for a very long time. I'm in the U.S. Without your free podcast, I would still be a prisoner in an absolute hell of anxiety disorders and so forth and so on. By offering this information and help for free, you're doing the work akin to say wow, okay. She likes the podcast. Uh, you kind of saved my life, and I'm sure many others. Thank you dearly, Amy. Yeah. All right, your analysis, brother. What do you think about this one? This is really good and a very solid.

SPEAKER_06 11:08

Uh I love that. I love the metacognitive awareness of the habit. Hold on. Yeah, my amygdala's not fired off, so it's a good observation. But also, look at the habit. How much am I checking whether it's there or not? That like it this it was centered around habit. So, yes, when we repeat and do anything, and we're in the midst of an anxiety disorder, habit plays and attention plays such a huge role. And there was that epiphany moment there of oh, I've obviously been doing some good work here because okay, I've noticed an old habit, but I'm also noticing, oh wow, things aren't just just because something feels urgent and scary doesn't mean it's fact. So I hope you took that experience and as a positive. Uh, really good, really good self-awareness. Well done.

SPEAKER_03 11:53

I think so too. I love the part where Amy says, it I didn't how could this be helping me? I'm staying in the flames instead of running out of them, and this is somehow going to heal my burns. Like, I love that she was super skeptical and not really even sure. Like, I don't understand why tolerating is even helping me until she noticed that it was. Like, that is such a good, good, good share there because so many people have to, it's a leap of faith. We talk about it all the time, right? Like, how is this helping me? Well, you're learning, you're learning, you're learning every time, you're taking a lesson, you're giving signals back down the chain to your lizard brain. Like, all of those things are happening, but it doesn't feel like I'm doing anything until suddenly you notice that things are changing. That's how this works.

SPEAKER_06 12:44

Yeah, we've got to step out of that instant fix thing. Like, I need to change one variable, then check to see if it's worked. No, no, no, it's always an attitude shift. Uh, really, really good, Amy. Uh, disclaimer as well, uh, we at Disorder do not advocate standing in literal flames and willfully tolerating that. Um unless any of our listeners are lava golems. If you were a lava golem and actually standing in flames is nurturing for you, then that's okay. It's like nutrition. I've got I've got um oh, we've got an audio one? Uh we can do an audio for you.

SPEAKER_03 13:20

No, why don't you read another one and then we'll do audio? How's that?

SPEAKER_06 13:22

Okay, I've got a short one, I like it. Sounds great. Uh hi there. I recently adopted a cat, both because I love animals and to try and directly challenge my avoidance in the face of fear and the fear of fear and other negative emotions like sadness and loneliness, etc. I am so, so glad I did. Not only do I have a wonderful friend and companion who is currently purring on my lap, but I stuck a big middle finger up at my anxiety and did it anyway.

SPEAKER_03 13:52

Oh I feel like we need a cat sound for that one. We don't have a cat sound. No, we don't have a cat sound. We'll get one. We've got stallone, we've got ridiculous collection of sounds. I I dig this. I like the cat is just chilling out while this person is you know sending in there, did it anyway.

SPEAKER_06 14:14

Yeah, I like it. And and that those moments of realization as well. Like, oh, this decision that I was putting off actually, I'm sat here and I'm peaceful with it.

SPEAKER_03 14:23

Well done. Amazing, right? You know what's cool about that one too? The bringing in the other stuff. It wasn't just about like, oh, my racing heart or my DPDR. It was an acknowledgement that like I'm struggling with some difficult emotions too. And part of why I adopted the cat was so I can teach, I can learn how to deal with some of those emotions as well. Really great.

SPEAKER_06 14:40

Yeah, because a lot of people's anxiety disorders not only fear anxiety, they fear other emotions. And you were like, you know what? I'm gonna do it and see what emotions come up. Um, and that's brilliant. Um, we didn't get the name of the cat though, which I'm a bit disappointed with. No, we used it anyway, though. It was good. Can't have it all.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

No, we can't. Um, let's go to an audio. This is a good one. So it's a little bit longer, but it is worth it. Oh, and if you are listening, we had to fade you out because there's a two-minute. If you guys are sending and did it anyways, podpage is going to cut you off for two minutes, so just be mindful of that. I didn't want to kill it and not use it because it's a really, really good one. So I faded it out at the end. So apologies if this was you, but we had to get it in that way. Here we go.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Hi, Josh and Drew. My name is Laura calling from Perth in Australia. You are welcome to use my name. I just wanted to send in a did it anyway. Um, I have suffered with panic disorder, agrophobia. Um, sadly, on and off for probably the past 10 years or so. Over the past seven months, it's been quite um severe. The point where I've been just in my safe zone, but just going where I feel safe in the local shoots. Still managing to do school jumps with the children, which is amazing, and not travelling too far from home. However, yesterday my husband um asked me if he wanted to go down to the local beach at Scarborough, which is about sort of 10-15 minutes away from going home. Now that's my little one in the background. Um, he asked me if he wanted to go with the three kids, and I knew that we would be there for a good hour, and I had the anticipatory anxiety, but I did it anyway. Got in the car with him, we went for an extra long walk around and got an ice cream for the children. Um, I didn't want to push myself too far, so we definitely sort of left within that hour time frame. Um, but I felt like it was a really, really good exposure, and I did it anyway. And the biggest thing for me was managing to actually keep my anxiety under control the whole time rather than my anxiety controlling me. So I just breathe normally and my body as relaxed as possible just to show the amygdala that there's nothing to worry about. And I've also managed to go out today and drive on the freeway or the motorway or highway, as you call it. Um, and that was a 15-minute motorway drive and took my little girl to an indoor play center. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

That's where I was fading out. But suffice to say that in the end, the the lesson here was essentially But I'm not done yet.

SPEAKER_04 17:11

Yeah, Billy Mays.

SPEAKER_03 17:12

I believe Billy Mays. Billy Mays stopped in for 100th episode. Laura, very well done. She tells the story, I presume, because she got cut off about another thing that she did the very next day, went out and challenged the anxiety again. So very well done. Well done, well done. So, and thank you for sharing. And you even inspired a Billy Mays visit, which is a big deal at this order.

SPEAKER_06 17:31

The fact that you carried on doing more stuff is really impressive as well. Just like, I'm gonna keep going, keep going, keep practicing. See, never use the word push, just encourage, just keep encouraging myself to keep going, keep going, and yeah, and then and you and you get on a roll. Uh well done.

SPEAKER_03 17:45

Yeah, anything particular about this one? I I have one observation that I'll I'll throw out. I like how I'll ask you if you have anything that I'll just start talking. That's a good way to do it. So uh she at one point more Laura mentions I found a way to keep the anxiety under control. And when I was listening to it in the edit, I was like, ooh, uh-oh. But the very next statement was I just breathed normally and I kept my body as relaxed as possible. And sure enough, I showed my abygular that it was okay. And I think paradoxically, here, the reason why Laura's anxiety stayed under control is that she did not try to control it, she relaxed into it instead of trying to clamp down or manage it. And what didn't you know? Her brain got the lesson and got the message, and she was able to like chill at the beach with her family.

SPEAKER_06 18:27

Yeah, well done, Laura. Keep going. And uh, yeah, I agree with that. That's uh some that's that's a good analysis. Yeah, remember you're not doing it, you don't want to fall under the uh illusion that oh, I can now control this whenever it comes up. You want to fall under the belief of if it comes up, it doesn't matter, I can deal with it.

SPEAKER_03 18:47

Right, I don't have to control it.

SPEAKER_06 18:48

That's the lesson. Very good. Absolutely, absolutely. Um this is from Rose. I'm up past midnight, drank a margarita, had a caffeinated soda, ate heavy food, posted on in a social media group I've been avoiding, watched some reels about National Suicide Prevention Month on all while dealing with my relationships of emotions while one week away from my period. This is living on the edge. One year ago, all this would have been too much. Still have some phobia of my anxiety, but chipping away at those damn avoidances, being non-anxious me, hashtag did it anyway. Uh and there's an extra here saying my name is okay, and for me it's Drew and Josh, because I knew about Drew first, but I love Josh's take too. Added some helpful layers, and I relate to Josh a lot more. Thank you both, but thank you both.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

Oh I that was living on the edge, man. That was really great. Um running with scissors, like, what else could you be talking about? Like, that was really great.

SPEAKER_06 20:06

Well done, Rose. That's that's really cool.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

Yeah, I'm rolling the dice, man. I'm doing all the dangerous stuff.

SPEAKER_05 20:12

Uh she's also describing my every Tuesday night. Margaritas and caffeine and past midnight takeaways.

SPEAKER_03 20:20

Stop planting on social media about animal welfare. Like, yeah, go for it, Rose. I'm I'm a fan, you know.

SPEAKER_06 20:27

What are you doing? I'm I'm I'm I'm watching videos about national suicide prevention whilst drinking margaritas. What are you doing? Go to bed.

SPEAKER_03 20:36

That was really great. And I think that's like probably, you know, it previously when Rose was like, Oh, all those things would be no, it would be like, Well, they felt like too dangerous to do. They would be triggering. I can't, I have to treat myself like a made of glass. And there, Rose is just rolling with the punches, man. Like, I'm I'm living on the edge, I'm living dangerously tonight. And okay, this is who I am.

SPEAKER_05 20:55

Imagery is fantastic.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

Really good, really good. It's one of my favorite did it anyways of all time, I think.

SPEAKER_05 21:01

Um that's up there, that's akin to the I overcame anxiety disorders with candy and cigarettes. I knew you would bring it up.

SPEAKER_03 21:09

That was Ingville. I know Ingvil's not listening. She doesn't need to, which is awesome from Norway. She was one of my Facebook group moderators from I I'll never be able to repay Ingvil for all of her contributions. She would get so angry when people talk about like you have to eat whole grains and you only know everything organic and no gluten and like no sugar. And she was like, I I was smoking cigarettes eating chocolate all day long, and I got better, so shut up. So it was really great. Your second brain is listening. Eat rice fermented kimchi. No, brain was literally drowning in sugar and calories.

SPEAKER_06 21:43

According to my phone, Bilal is seven minutes away on his on his bike, and he is rushing to give me Mike Bob. Right there.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

Very good, Rose. Thanks for sharing and like offering a bit of humor too at the same time. Really dig it. Um, I'll I get a written one, I'll I'll read. Uh, let's see. Ooh, this is a good one. Okay. I would like to share that today. I finally listened to episode 80 of the podcast, which was our dating anxiety episode. After not listening to it from a fear that I would expose something, it would expose something that might put my romantic relationship in jeopardy. Over the past year or so, I have truly looked at my anxiety head on after ignoring it for years. And looking back now, it makes sense why it got a lot worse before it got better. All of my attention was on my anxiety, especially surrounding romantic relationships, as my values and self-esteem used to weigh so heavily on my love life. However, through listening to your podcast, attending therapy and doing so much more with my life than I used to, I exposed myself to things I ended up really enjoying, including being with my current partner. I believe I have an anxious attachment style. And there was a time when I got hung up on that fact, which made me believe that it was impossible for me and my partner to have a happy and healthy relationship. But I have worked to push myself and bring anxiety along for the ride. And now I could actually see my anxiety as something interesting and not a villain. So good, right? Through moving my attention away from anxiety and fears around my relationship, I have felt a lot calmer. And then though there may be points when I'm resensitized, I know that anxiety is welcome for whatever ride life takes me. This has done wonders for my attachment style. And now I thoroughly feel defined by me and not my relationship or my attachment style. So I'm happy to say I finished episode 80 and enjoyed wrapping some Christmas presents while doing so. Thank you both for all you do for so many people. And I know you have definitely helped me in realizing I have more control than I think. All the best, and thanks again.

SPEAKER_06 23:37

Oh I mean, I mean that's how that's how you do it. Well done. That's incredible. That that uh the acknowledgement, the the the acceptance of vulnerability, not being defined by anxiety, being brave, acknowledging that actually I get a lot of my esteem from my relationships, attachment, and then welcoming and practicing with that anxiety. I mean, that is so good on so many levels. Uh well done. I told you that episode would be a good idea, Drew.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

No, you did actually you did. I was like, can we really do this? But it turned out to be a good episode. You're right. I I can echo everything you said. There is so much self-awareness in here, there's so much good insight, and again, widening the scope. It's not just anxiety symptoms or scary thoughts. What I love about this is in any kind of therapy, I don't care if it's anxiety or trauma or whatever, there's always the, well, this is a problem. This might be why it's happening. I'm not sure. We can work on that. But now what am I gonna do with it? So, so much you see, so much stuff like, well, I just have anxious attachment. So therefore, I'm doomed forever to be in these maladaptive patterns. This person recognized that, like, well, maybe I could do something with that. Okay, maybe that is an issue, but like, what does it mean? What do I do with it going forward? How do I incorporate that and like try and build a better life with it? Love that. Now, what do we do?

SPEAKER_06 25:03

Me too. Me too. I love that better relationship with my maladaptive patterns. Yeah, we you know we're all about the metacognitive awareness on here, it's boring, it can't fit into an Instagram reel, but it's real life stuff, and we want life to talk about. Very good.

SPEAKER_03 25:29

All right, what do we got? Any more written? I got two more, I got two more audios we can play, and one more written. So, what do you think?

SPEAKER_06 25:34

I've got more. There's there's a lot in this library. Uh here we go. Um please don't use my name. Hi guys, I'm recovering from panic disorder, puro, agrophobia, and have a did it anyway twofold. I am doing much better after 16 years, and usually only have an episode every few months. And I'm now able to let it happen and not use escape tactics. Apologies for the emergency services.

SPEAKER_03 26:01

Someone is escaping right now.

SPEAKER_06 26:03

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh today was a dental appointment for my teen son. I hate the dentist, and he hates the dentist. He also has anxiety, along with autism and ADHD. And it breaks my heart to see him experience the same panic I used to have. It's also very difficult not to get triggered by his episodes. Well, today I was nervous but doing what non-anxious me would do. He was so nervous he was shaking. And I tried to engage with him with calming breaths. I explained how our body is protecting us and that it doesn't always understand there is isn't a danger. We practiced letting it wash over us while waiting in the office. We made it through the appointment, but I did cry a bit because I get so sad knowing he has to face these issues. He is such a brave soul. But we did it anyway. Thank you for all you do. Oh to Drew for the analysis there. Two-pronged attack from uh two-pronged attack from uh parent and son. Uh, how would you describe that?

SPEAKER_03 27:14

That's some quality parenting, right there, for sure. Like I'm gonna have to teach my son, who's maybe a little bit challenged in the way he experiences the world. Acknowledge that, number one, honor who he really is. Well done. And now I'm gonna try and teach him that like sometimes the protective system gets a little bit overzealous and and you know, alerts when it doesn't have to. It's okay to feel this way, you can handle it. We're gonna get through this together. Perfect. Could not ask for any more.

SPEAKER_06 27:39

Well done. Outstanding. Um, strength and depth and attack there. Uh, that's a reference to an old pundit uh called called Alan Hansen. And if the 0.1% of this podcast recognize that, that was for you. Uh, yeah, that was really, really good. Uh yeah, he is a brave soul. So are you? You're brave. I I love that in so many ways because you're teaching. I'm a therapist. I work with a lot of people that are embarrassed, ashamed about anxiety, they want to hide it. I'm scared to give it to my kids, you know, like it's leprosy. And what you've actually done there is demonstrate that it's okay to be vulnerable and anxious, and demonstrate and convey your belief to your son that they are capable of doing it with anxiety. One, it's okay to be anxious, and two, you're capable. That's parenting stuff of the year. Love it. We don't try to get rid of it or fix it or pass on uh like weird messages to our to our kids. Like, if you're anxious, it means you're doing something wrong. No, you did you did it all right. Well done.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

This person did a really good job, too, of even acknowledging their own experience. Like, I even cried a bunch of times because I'm really sad that he's struggling. Like, yeah, but I very good. I can have my emotions and bring them with me into this experience and still try to teach a valuable lesson to somebody that I really care about. Like so many things happening at once, and that is the way life goes. Even if the shit hits the fan, we can be okay. We can get something out of that. Very good. Um, we'll do an audio. How's that? Let's go back to audio. No, no, you know what? I'm gonna read one and then we'll do an audio.

SPEAKER_04 29:19

How's that? Okay.

SPEAKER_03 29:20

Um, let's see. This person says it's okay to use her name. This is from Doreen. Um, hey, Josh and Drew. I'm here to say I'm sorry to you both. You could say my name, I'm Doreen from the Netherlands. I think I send emails and voice memos like four times, but I noticed it's all reassurance seeking. I had a lot of what if questions and send way too much info about my own life because I wanted all the answers and solutions from you guys. After a year of listening to disordered, I think I finally understand the message. It's learning to be uncomfortable while doing life and learning it's not dangerous, and there's no special treatment for every thought you have. Can we just bask in that for just a second?

SPEAKER_06 29:57

Yeah, I enjoyed it.

SPEAKER_03 29:59

Let it hang in the air.

SPEAKER_06 30:00

That was a that was a that was a banging realize.

SPEAKER_03 30:02

I'm a ruminator and reassurance seeker and got a big ass critic, Karen. She calls her amygdala Karen. I love it in my head. When I get anxiety, I get totally dependent upon it. I need to learn, I can trust myself. I'm finally at that place again. I trust myself more and more. It's so weird. It's like anxiety paralyzes you. Anyway, I just wanted to thank you two from the bottom of my heart. Like I said in the messages before, you guys taught me more than most therapy ever did, and you're all super funny. Um, I love you guys, you're straight to the point and come without the nonsense life hacks. Thank you so much. Oh, thanks for the kind words, Doreen. That was really sweet. But lovely, Doreen. There is no special treatment for every thought you had. Doreen, you're my hero. You made my day. Thank you. Please listen to Doreen. She knows. I love that.

SPEAKER_06 30:47

Uh, does anyone, any of our listeners, notice that when Drew reads kind stuff about himself, he speeds up and tenses up a bit. Like, like embrace it, Drew. Someone's being kind. You guys are so nice to us.

SPEAKER_03 31:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:01

But you know, it's the whole like you get the credit thing. I I admit it's a flaw for me. I get uncomfortable when you start saying nice things.

SPEAKER_06 31:07

So, because I never want you guys to give us the I want I want you guys modesty and humility, and it's not it's not a criticism. Uh, whereas as a raging narcissist, I need it every seven minutes.

SPEAKER_03 31:21

It's so hard to be friends with this guy. It's like you're amazing, Josh. I love you, Josh. You're great, Josh.

SPEAKER_06 31:28

Drew, can we just pause a second? I'm not feeling confident. Anyway, that was brilliant. So so good, Doreen. Um, brilliant. I love the realization, like looking back, going, Oh, yeah, maybe I wasn't doing what it's all right. So good.

SPEAKER_03 31:45

Every person looks back and does the whole like, ooh, was I doing that? Everybody, we can all look back. You have cringy things that you could think of that you did, like, oh, I did it all the time.

SPEAKER_06 31:53

I I reached out back when I was suffering. I did it all the time because you're desperate. You feel when you're anxious, you feel really desperate, and you want someone to give you the answers because you've spent hours ruminating and going around in circles, and you can't get to the answer. So, yeah, you do reach out and you do those things, but yeah, the epiphany is realizing that you've had it the whole time. You're okay listening to idiots like Drew and I, we can direct you into that, but it's got to be a you realization, which Doreen, oh my god, what is it?

SPEAKER_03 32:24

Like Alien Mothercraft literally just landed on Josh's words.

SPEAKER_06 32:28

Every vehicle has decided to just come outside my office and do donuts and launch into space. Uh, there's a bike meet. I think I saw Vin Diesel pull up saying something about family and revving engines. I just I don't anyway. Apologies for that. Wow.

SPEAKER_03 32:45

Very good. Um, you want to do a I got one more audio. How's that?

SPEAKER_06 32:50

Yeah, I've got well, I've got if we've got time, I can do another written one.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

Yeah, why don't you do a written one and then we'll wrap it up with a with an audio? How's that?

SPEAKER_06 32:56

Oh, right, okay, here we go. Um hey guys, I used to be a religious follower of your content for several years as I was suffering through my disordered state that that had developed. Two years are two years, two years or so again when I first discovered your content, Drew. When I first discovered your content, Drew talked about you can't go from a disordered state to traveling to Italy. It just doesn't work that way. I am very happy to say I am sitting in the train station of a city I don't live in because I just did my first solo travel in five years. There were so many moments where the old me would have simply not been able to handle it. And guess what? I did it anyway and experienced so many new things and good memories, and I cannot wait to plan the next even longer vacation later this year. So if any one of your current listeners have hopes to one day travel, I'm telling you, let my case prove that it's possible. Thanks again, Drew and Josh. Keep up the great work. I like the enthusiasm and the compassion to share that with others as well. Me too. Because again, they like Drew said before, if you're thinking, well, that's not me, I can't be. No, no, no, that's a future version of you compassionately telling you you can.

SPEAKER_03 34:24

Yeah, yeah. I I think what's so important is everybody that sends these in, first of all, when they want, like, hey, I just want to offer some encouragement. I love that so much. And I think the big thing to remember is that the reason why this person got to their trip abroad was the the relationship that they have with anxiety when they wrote that did it anyway is different than when they thought they couldn't do it. So your conceptualization might be like, there's no way I'm ever going to be able to do that. I know that's because the relationship you have with your anxiety today tells you that it's impossible. But when that relationship changes, suddenly things open up for you. So patience, just take the lessons as they come and like they they lead to that. Just a quick clarification what I would always say is you don't go from stuck on your sofa for the last six months to going to Italy or on a cruise today. That's not how this works. Ultimately, you do anything you want, but it just takes some time and being nice and compassionate and patient with yourself while you learn the lessons. So it's all good. Yeah. That's good. Well done. Yeah. All right. We'll uh wrap it up with an audio. How's that? This one's a little longer, also, but it's worth playing. So let's do it.

SPEAKER_02 35:32

Hi, Drew and Josh. This is N connecting in from Colorado. Thank you for everything that you guys use your space for. Since I was in October after having an adrenaline rush at the house, which never happens. Since then, dealing with monophobia and just struggling and avoiding those panicky feelings at every cost. Today I had a new feedback appointment in which I decided to leave my safe bag with my husband in the car. Went into my appointment, and then during my session, I started to feel panicky. And I had the oh no. But this morning I watched a video with Drew when he was on his bike in New York and he had an adrenaline rush, and he said, That's when you have a choice to make. And in that moment, I decided to make a choice. I wanted to rip everything off, run out, jump into my husband's arms, and instead I stayed. And I endured and I tolerated, and it was very uncomfortable. And it's the first time I've ever allowed myself to just flow through one of these. And for 15 minutes, my heart is pounding, I'm short of breath, I'm hot, I want to escape, and I didn't, and I finished my session, and I felt so empowered. I felt like I had just won a raffle prize or something. So thank you. My question is how do we go from that moment where we willfully tolerate, we face a fear, we get on the other side, we look under the bed and see there's no monster, and we feel so good. But then an hour or two later we start ruminating again about what if oh no, what if I banned it again? What if it happens here? It just went from being so high to kind of right back into that habit. Is it just a bad mental thought habit that pops back in? Or I just would like some insight on, you know, I almost thought in that moment, this is it, this was my moment, I'm I'm good now. So I would love to hear any any insight, and I hope I can hear this in an upcoming episode. Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 37:32

First of all, a big round of applause for the it's the first time I ever fully allowed myself to go through that. Well, well done.

SPEAKER_06 37:40

I I thought it was excellent. Well done. And also well done to you, Drew, for uh uploading a video many moons ago. Um, back when things were seepier. Uh of you having uh having a panic on a bike. Because that inspired inspired someone. So yeah, well done, Drew, and well done to the person for taking inspiration from Drew.

SPEAKER_03 38:00

Yeah. Um, yeah, that video was probably, oh geez, probably six years ago now, I bet. But um cool, glad it helped. So six years ago.

SPEAKER_06 38:07

I bet I I was knee-high to a grasshopper then.

SPEAKER_03 38:11

And it's funny because uh I was saying to Josh, Drew, if that if that if I did not have a panic attack while out on my bike doing a workout that day, we there might be no disordered. Because at the time I had kind of stopped making podcast episodes and videos for a little while, and and so many people seemed to resonate with that video that I started back into it again, and here I am. So anyway, what do you think about the question?

SPEAKER_06 38:32

Uh you're you're observing, take inspiration from the other did it anyways, here, particularly the the one where I observed, you know, the habit is to go in and observe threat monitor, label them as compulsions, you know. I've noticed that don't try to technique if I great exposure. You did it, but the mistake you make is to be like, well, if I've done one, why has that not erased all of my anxiety? No, an anxiety disorder is an amalgamation of fear and habit and attention. So the first prong, you absolutely nailed. I am willing to feel the fear, but the other two prongs to anxiety disorders are attention and habit, and that's the other two that you need to address. I don't know what do you think?

SPEAKER_03 39:14

Yeah, I I think you know the the maybe the slight adjustment of expectation would be like, okay, this was my moment. I'm good now. Well, I'm good now because now I know I can do it. Like you messed up, you showed yourself you're capable, so now you got to do it again.

SPEAKER_06 39:28

Yeah, but willfully tolerate it for 15 minutes.

SPEAKER_03 39:31

Right. I'm good. No, no, no, the willful tolerance carries on. Okay, and you're not doing anything wrong. It's you're not like, oh, I don't understand. Why did why didn't it just fix it? Why don't why am I still afraid of it? Imagine how we would have never made it. And I mean the royal we, the human race, if our threat response was that easy to turn off. It's super easy to turn on. It has to be hard to turn off. Otherwise, we would not be here. So it's okay. It's just evolution has done its job poorly in our situation because evolution is too slow to keep up with it the way we change societally. So you're, yeah, it's just gonna take repetition. You're gonna have to do it again and again and again. As many times as you got to. It's okay. You did it, which means you could do it again. Just let each experience build. And like Josh was saying, it it starts to change the habits over time. I wish it was one and done. That would be so great. Just never, never is.

SPEAKER_06 40:21

Yeah. Outstanding. And thank you to everyone who submitted in not just for this episode, but people have taken time out of their day to submit and share their stories. Uh, we apologize, apologize, we can't reply or play them all. Um, but we do make an effort to try and go through as many as we can, and we really appreciate it. If you're inspired to share um a did it anyway or a question, you can do that at disordered.fm. Uh rem remember what Drew said. There's a two-minute timer on, so you know, be careful. And the more concise the better, if that's all right. Um, because you know, I think it fits into the episode a bit more. Um, or just send us an email over at disorder.fm as well. You can follow us on social media, anxietyjosh, the.anxious.truth, buy our books, um, print off pictures of us to throw onto a bonfire if you want to. Who knows? Um, but thank you, and we really appreciate it. It's 100 episodes. Wouldn't have done it if no one tunes in. And I really appreciate that.

SPEAKER_03 41:24

100%. We went over a million downloads shortly. We should probably thank you guys for that too. That was uh it probably went over a few months ago, but the stats were a little weird, but we appreciate that. And what else can we tell you? There are 1,300 messages in that Gmail folder. I didn't realize that till today, and hundreds of audio recordings. So you guys were so engaged and we appreciate that. It makes it more fun to do.

SPEAKER_06 41:47

So yeah, yeah, thank you guys, and we'll be back next week. Um, as usual, every Friday. Thanks for keeping us in your in your ears, and yeah, look after yourself.

SPEAKER_03 41:57

Next hundred episodes coming up. See you next week.