Anxiety Recovery: Bring ALL Versions Of You (Episode 161)

SPEAKER_02 0:01

I want to do this non-resistance, accepting, tolerating, navigating thing. But the minute I feel a thing or have a thought that I think I'm not supposed to have or shouldn't still be having, I instantly declare myself broken failure, like shouldn't be happening. This isn't right. I stomp my feet. And essentially what you're doing is like denying the fact that that version of you does exist right in that moment.

SPEAKER_04 0:26

Overcoming anxiety disorders requires compassion. It requires you to accept every facet of yourself, even the facets you don't like.

SPEAKER_02 0:34

That is the exact version of you that does the recovery. Trying to kick that version of you in the face and then lock them out of the room or pretend they don't exist or banish them to the sofa or the bedroom means that version of you, which is the version that must learn the lesson to recover, doesn't get to learn the lesson. Welcome to Disordered. This is episode 161. Today we're talking about the fact that all of you has to come into the anxiety recovery or desensitization process. It's going to be a good chat. I'm Drew Linsolata, one half of Disordered. I'm a therapist that specializes in the treatment of anxiety and anxiety disorders in New York. Uh, someone who has suffered with all the things that we talk about here on Disordered, multiple four-time author on the topic, social media dude, guy with a lot of microphones and cameras. And as always, I am joined by my esteemed co-host from across the pond.

SPEAKER_04 1:23

Hi, everyone. I'm a previous sufferer of panic disorder, OCD, generalized anxiety, health anxiety. Um, I once thought I had gout, but it wasn't. Um, and yeah, I'd like to bring my knowledge to uh to this podcast. Today we're gonna, you know, talk about coming as you are, come as you are. Yeah. You know, bring all of you. You were passionate to talk about this today, weren't you, Drew? I was.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

In fact, I think when when I voice messaged you, I said that today's topic should be stu how to not kick yourself in the face, which is, I know, very graphic, but I I think it came about because I just see so many people who want to do acceptance and tolerance, floating, what I don't care the word you want to use. It doesn't matter. I want to do this non-resistance, accepting, tolerating, navigating thing. But the minute I feel a thing or have a thought that I think I'm not supposed to have or shouldn't still be having, I instantly declare myself broken failure, like shouldn't be happening, this isn't right. I stomp my feet, I throw a tantrum. And essentially what you're doing is like denying the fact that that version of you does exist right in that moment. And I contend, and I posted it in the community app for people to chew on, that is the exact version of you that does the recovery. So like trying to kick that person, that version of you in the face and then lock them out of the room or pretend they don't exist or banish them to the sofa or the bedroom means they don't that version of you, which is the version that must learn the lesson to recover, doesn't get to learn the lesson. That's my that's my thesis in a nutshell.

SPEAKER_04 3:01

Yeah, I like that. It's also like you're there's a difference too between going into doing tricky things unconditionally and conditionally. Yeah. A lot, and this is again why I always talk about compassion. Uh overcoming anxiety disorders requires compassion. It requires you to accept every facet of yourself, even the facets you don't like. The vulnerable one, the one that has self-doubt, the one that feels scared, the one that gets irritated, the one that isn't optimal or perfect. If you're going doing scary things or tolerating intrusive thoughts or tolerating a threat response misfiring, and and you've got to go into situations with doubt, you've got to accept all of you, isn't that?

SPEAKER_01 3:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:46

But the moment you don't like the anxious self, or that's not acceptable, you then start creating conditions. And overcoming an anxiety disorder requires an unconditionality, not well, actually, I slept well last night and I had my supplements and I feel good. Uh, and now I can go and do the exposures because it's fine, no one can see me. No, come as you are. Yeah. The tired, sweaty mess that I am right now, go and do tricky things, and that's okay.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

I think that's, and again, that that's the version of you that has to do the tricky things. Like that, there's that version that has to be welcomed into the room, into the experience, or it doesn't work. I know for myself, I mean, sometimes we share our own personal experiences. One of the things that probably held me up is I was longing and pining away for the old version of me that never got anxious, never bothered me, didn't have panic attacks, just ran everything over. I was like bulletproof, titanium-coated. And I just wanted that guy back. And all I wanted was doing was looking for him and trying to get him to show up. But I didn't need him. I just needed to be the kind of anxious mess that I was at the time because that's the version of me that had to learn. So just trying to, it's like, no, I got to get that person back, gotta get that person back. Okay, that person will get back when I let the current version of me, the really struggling version of me, exist with some kindness. Like you're allowed to be here. I don't know. I like that.

SPEAKER_04 5:09

Also, there's a theory as well that you know there's a reason you ended up anxious. Maybe it was because you didn't allow other facets of yourself to exist. Certainly possible, right? Until it gets until it gets there. I know, certainly for me personally, yeah. You know, constantly being this person, always in control, always on not learning to relax, not stopping, not being kind to myself. Don't get me wrong, there's you know, a genetic component to anxiety disorders and stuff like that. But I definitely think how I spoke to myself leading up to um my initially becoming sensitized, that's something I've my anxiety disorder taught me. It's actually I'm glad I had it now. Because it taught me that actually all parts of me are welcome in different places. But those with inner critics, inner craig the critics, you know, they'll go in and they'll compare and everyone's doing better than me, and blah, blah, blah. You'll ignore stats of like one in five of us have an anxiety disorder, but you'll ignore them. You'll be like, no, everyone's doing better than me, and I mustn't be feeling this way. And if I'm feeling this way in this situation, then that's there's something wrong with me. I'm doing something wrong, I'm broken. And it doesn't need to be like that.

SPEAKER_03 6:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 6:17

Actually, it doesn't need to be like that at all. No, all of you, all right. I'm anxious at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 6:24

Yeah, I'm an anxious version of myself for now. I get that. For now. Yeah, for now. And I think some of it is driven by the fact that it doesn't matter what your theme is. OCD, health anxiety, panics doesn't matter. Some part of you, if you're listening to this podcast, understands that you don't have to run back to your sofa when your heart beats too fast. So in anxiety disorders, some there's always some insight, right? We always know like this isn't right. I'm not, I shouldn't be so scared. I understand that this isn't a problem. So I think that becomes the issue. Well, I know that it's irrational. So therefore, just knowing that should be enough, and I shouldn't be getting triggered and I shouldn't be afraid of it anymore. But that's not how this works. Because if just reading the Claire Weeks book and explaining it, that's what happened to me. Oh, that's what that is. I'm good, but I really wasn't good until I had to actually have the experiences. It's not enough to just know.

SPEAKER_04 7:18

We mentioned this in like a very old episode of Disordered, but everyone has that feeling when they first read your book, Claire Weeks' book, my books, whatever. Um, where you read it, you read yourself, you read your experiences, you feel less alone, you suddenly feel less anxious. And there's a brief window there where you're like, ah, the book didn't magically take away feelings you don't like. Yeah, you just temporarily allowed yourself to be as you are, and that's why you felt calmer.

unknown 7:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:52

Oh my god, Claire Weeks is talking about me. And she says it's okay, and everything's gonna be okay, and suddenly you drop resistance because you're like, ah, right, and that is it. Oh, then you've revert back into old habits. That's why it's so important to come as you are, because that's what happens when you when you see another real, but then you get addicted to that relief and you turn it into a compulsion and yada yada yada. Yeah, but in general, yeah, that that that was it. I remember doing it. I remember reading like Paul David's book and being like, God, he's talking about DPDR. Like, wow, someone else is talking about this. And then for that next hour or two, I was like, Oh, I'm allowed to have DPDR and throughout my day, and it made me feel so much better.

SPEAKER_02 8:32

Yeah, you're right. I mean, when when I wrote The Anxious Truth, I think the first line is you're confused, upset, something like that. Like, I don't I didn't remember my first line, but I was like, Well, how do I open this book? Well, I open the book the way I felt, and so many people will say, like, oh my god, I felt like you were talking to me right from the first line. I'm like, well, I kind of was, but I think the problem where people get very self-critical is okay, now that this person has told me, oh, I know how you feel. It's okay, you're okay, you're not broken, you're gonna be okay. Why am I not okay then? He told me. He understands I felt better for for an hour, or I felt really good for three days when I started reading that book. How come it came back? I how come that's not enough? And then they get really angry with themselves and do the whole like, nope, you know, it's I I had it figured out, man, but then I got triggered today. And no, uh clearly I have it wrong, and I gotta go back to controlling and fixing and not allowing that version of myself to show up. That's a mistake. That's a mistake.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

Yeah, yeah. It is interesting that as well. And when you do read these books or read stuff or listen to us, even you're actually not rapid-fire compulsing. You're at you know me, I have got this thing where most of an anxiety disorder is attention-based, yeah, with compassion. But when you listen to disordered, it brings people relief because suddenly, one, it's okay to have these feelings people feel seen, but two, your attention is on us.

SPEAKER_02 9:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:49

And you're actually bringing all of you to the podcast. But when the podcast finishes and you go back to living your life, yeah, you put these old rules in again. No, take take the rules that you have and apply them to other things. Yeah, we're not. Would you like to hear a did it anyway? I do. I 100% want to. This is from Keith, and he says we can use his name. I love the word name, Keith. Um did it anyway. I've suffered for years from breathing anxiety, among other types. Today, while warming up at the gym, I started feeling dizziness, chest tightness, and shallow breathing. I recognized, as you both have put it, that it's not a panic attack, it's an adrenaline rush. After taking a step outside and just sitting with it to let the rush wear off, I went back inside and ran five miles on the treadmill with a smile. Old me would have gone home or gone to bathroom, to the bathroom to splash cold water on my face. New me acknowledges it, understand it's okay, and we'll pass, then continues on with my day. I cannot thank you both enough for changing my relationship to anxiety. Welcome, Keith.

SPEAKER_02 10:54

Good job, Keith. You know what I love about that? To speaking to today's topic, he I love how he said I understood, but it wasn't a bad. We have somebody in the studio audience who said she she gets upset with herself. I thought I understood. Well, you do understand. And Keith understood, but he had to do a thing. He had to let himself sit and be anxious and then do a thing, go back in the gym and finish his workout. So understanding alone isn't enough. Good job, Keith. You took that next step and look what you got out of it. Well done.

SPEAKER_04 11:21

Yeah, well done, Keith.

SPEAKER_02 11:23

He brought all of him in. Yeah, exactly. Anxious me could be at the gym too, I guess, or in the parking lot waiting to like chill so I can go back in. Whatever. It's all good. So I hear you. I think it's an important point because this person, you know, who in our audience again said, I I I I got it fixed. Yay, she's all excited, right? I get it. Then I get triggered again, and she will say to herself, Oh, what's wrong?

SPEAKER_04 11:43

I thought I understood, but but then then that's you not accepting that the triggered part of you is allowed. I get it. I accept me until I'm triggered, and then I don't. Oh no, no, that's bad. That's not allowed to be here. I can't bring that with me. No, bring it with you, whether it's menial stuff in existing at home or going out and about, you know, if you've got OCD and you've got intrusive thoughts and that doubt, bring it with you. No, I can't, I can't bring those intrusive thoughts, they're awful. No, all of you is welcome. Even the I get bonkers thoughts all the time, but that's that's just my brain.

SPEAKER_02 12:19

Well, I think the understanding part. Oh, I'm sorry, Josh, I stepped on you. The the No, it's cool. The understanding part is what a la should allow you, instead of understanding being used as a weapon. Like I thought I understood what's wrong with me. No, because you understand, that is what should let you accept the anxious part of you or the anxious version of you show, I understand what this is. I can coach the anxious part of me through this because now I understand what it is. I know we're okay, but you can't do like damn it, slamming your fist on the table, shut the door. This is stupid, this is all over. Why am I still like this? That's not right. The understanding should inform self-compassion and acceptance, not deny it in a way.

SPEAKER_04 12:57

And that's you only accepting yourself conditionally. That's right. I like myself and I accept myself when I'm not anxious and triggered. Really helpful is actually I accept all of me. Sometimes I do get anxious and triggered. I prefer not to feel like that. I certainly would. Don't know about you, Drew. You know, if I'm if I'm if I've gone bowling with friends, I'd rather do it feeling joy rather than rather than feeling on anchor on edge and overwhelmed, but I'm willing to and I don't mind it. Yeah, I'm not gonna start kicking myself, and I know that I'm anxious right now, in this moment. I don't know how I'll feel when I bowl the perfect game, which I always do with the sides up using the kitty ramp, but still.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

The bumpers, yeah, the bumpers and and the and the little kitty ramp.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

You are a grown-ass man bowling with two hands.

SPEAKER_04 13:51

Come on, you gotta get over that dude. You know what? I think that's cooler than professional 10-pin bowling players. I think that that that's that's akin to golf outfit. What are you doing, guys?

SPEAKER_02 14:04

Like golf, don't get me. Play golf for like one summer, never again. I'm done. Um, yeah, but I you know why I couldn't accept the bad golf part of me. I was getting all frustrated. I'm like, okay, I could drive the ball a ton, but then after that, I'm sticking a fork in me. It's over. I'm gonna shoot a 300 today, and it was just not it was not good. Anyway, um, yeah, I think I enjoy sports.

SPEAKER_04 14:26

A lot of people can't do it, they're really competitive. There's another I enjoy sports because I'm not trying to be the best, yeah. Unless they've had a few Guinness and I play darts, and then I'm like, come on, here comes Luke. It's a blood match.

SPEAKER_02 14:38

Josh is an angry dart player after a couple of beers. Not like I'm spearing salmon. Just gets more and more aggressive as he goes. But so I I think this is really difficult for many people. It could be cultural, it could be your upbringing drove this into you, could be a lot of different things. We you did a great uh workshop on perfectionism in the community. We talked about that stuff. Sometimes I think perfectionism drives this, or the belief that if I derate the anxious version of me when they show up, when that version of me shows up, that's good. That's motivating, that's keeping myself in check, that's correcting myself. That's no, it's not at all. So yeah. I mean, imagine that if it's a classroom and the anxious version of you has to learn whatever calculus. If that version of you shows up at the door of the classroom and you literally kick it, kick that version of you in the face and lock the door, then they never learn what they're supposed to be learning. I can't believe I picked calculus as a subject. That is the nerdiest thing I've ever said in this podcast.

SPEAKER_04 15:36

We don't use the word calculus over in the UK. What is that?

unknown 15:40

I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 15:40

Calculus math. That's like advanced math, you know, engineering type math. Oh, right, okay. You know, find the area and their curve, derivatives and integration, and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_04 15:49

You know when you see videos of like A-level maths. Yeah, yeah. You do I didn't I got an E for everyone get got better than you.

SPEAKER_02 15:57

E is everyone got better than you.

unknown 16:00

I love it.

SPEAKER_04 16:01

But it's still an A level in maths, I'll have you know.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

Sure. That's that math where when you see videos of like Mishi Ukako and and those guys like nailed a grass heights and they'll show you the math behind the universe, and it's unintelligible. That's calculus. So why do I use that? I don't even know.

SPEAKER_04 16:17

And then talking about it like it's easy, like we should understand them.

SPEAKER_02 16:20

Like, yes, see all these symbols that aren't even letters, we don't even know what these are. We made them up, they're just shapes that tells you how the universe works. I'm like, okay, you say so. It's all good. Well, anyway. What else can we say about this? I mean, we're only 16 minutes in. I may have like overestimated the amount we could say on this, but that is not true. No, we can. Let's hear from the community. Yeah, we have a nice audio one, and we've been meaning to play this one for a while, so let's get to it now.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

Hey Drew and Josh, my name is Amrita, and you can use my name. I'm here today to say a thank you, a big, big thank you to both of you. Because around a year ago, I started listening to your podcast, and um it's changed my life, honestly, like in so many ways. I'm doing so many things I never thought I could do. And I'm choosing to send this in today because my boyfriend sent me a picture from a year ago when I was having my first coffee in like years. Yeah, he just had a picture of that and he sent it over to me and he's like, Look how much progress you've made. Like, I had my first coffee after so long on that day, and today I'm doing so so so so many things that I never thought would be possible. I also had sent uh another voice uh recording many months ago because I was going to give an exam, which was like really difficult, and like it felt like a huge mountain to cross for me because the exam was eight hours long, and I was like, How am I gonna get through this uh with all that anxiety? And um I did, and and that was all because of you guys. Honestly, I cannot thank you enough. And I also did really well on the exam, so just thank you. And I was kind of I also kind of owe my life, my new life to you. I don't know if that sounds cheesy, but yeah. Thank you.

SPEAKER_04 18:29

Oh, well done, um Rita. No, you don't know us your life. You owe just you owe us uh I'll I'll accept half a pizza. Uh well done, well, well done. That's amazing. And hey, eight-hour exam. I got anxiety just hearing that, right? Exactly. I love it.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Eight-hour exam, I'm anxious.

unknown 18:45

It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02 18:47

I gotta get it in somehow.

SPEAKER_03 18:49

Ruin such a wholesome data anyway.

SPEAKER_02 18:51

You know what the rough sorry that was really great, and you know what? In the beginning, it was just having a coffee. That's that's wasn't that was a win. But like that version of Amarukha had to exist, and she had to just build on that and let that version of her keep learning lessons. And now here we are a year later, and they all added up those little experiences that you think are too stupid, it shouldn't happen. I should have been triggered. Everybody can drink coffee. No, that mattered. Look at look, that was the beginning, or or that was the first step, it seems, or one of them anyway. So well done.

SPEAKER_04 19:22

Yeah, nice from your boyfriend to remind you as well of these things, as well. That's the compassion element to it. Love that, you know, and they're building up and building up. Uh, and we're joking, by the way. No, it's yes, I'm glad that we could guide you you to that, but it was you that's done all of that. You chose to do the tricky things. All we can do is sit here with microphones and pontificate. So well done. You chose to do that.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Well, I think that speaks to today's theme also a little bit. Like uh, if you're listening every week and we're helping you, well, thank you. We appreciate your support, of course, and we're glad to be able to help. But you know, sometimes people will berate themselves for, but I but I have heard all the podcasts, I've read all of the books you guys have ever written. Okay, cool. But it doesn't mean that you should declare failure because you're still getting triggered, or you're still afraid of choking, or whatever your particular fear is at the moment. Like, thanks for listening. But like listening, and it's okay. All that did is inform, like, okay, I think I know what this is, so I could start to do it a little differently, but I need those experiences, so don't berate yourself just because you read books or you follow all the accounts and you think that's supposed to make it better, it won't make it better.

SPEAKER_04 20:22

Also, just be careful when all of you is welcome. A lot of stuff, particularly social media and grifters and optimization culture. Kind of spread this message that's very sinister. The underlying message is no, not all of you is a welcome. If you're anxious, you're doing something wrong. You know, do this, do this technique, take the supplement, do all those things because you're anxious and it's your fault and you're not doing the right thing. No, the kind of point of this episode is no bring all of you with you, whether it's to the wedding, the event, the restaurant, on that hike, moving house, gonna go into your kids' graduation, go into your own graduation, doing all these things. You're not broken, so stop behaving like you're broken. If you wake up every morning and plan 20, 30 things to fix or optimize or do better than yourself, better in yourself, you're just creating a feedback loop where there's 30 times in a day that you've teached yourself and your brain and yourself holistically that you are not good enough. Bring all of you into these things, whether it's shaking, tremoring, looking whatever, it doesn't matter because there's no better way to teach the brain, yeah, and the oh yeah, we know amygdala the this this feeling and these sensations are not a threat in themselves. Yeah, it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:42

You know, I think it even goes beyond anxiety. That I'll get on a mini rant here, but like in a way, we're in a situation where if the scroll is designed to get your attention, if I tell you that I have discovered a way to never be angry or to only be happy or to only be positive so that you can build a life of abundance. or whatever it is I'm trying to sell you, then it it indicates that like depressed you, angry you, regretful you, guilty you, like sad you is not correct. If you get into one of those negative states, look, fix it. Don't be in a negative state. Fix it. You should fix it. You have to fix it. It makes me almost miss the days where like we just continually posted it's okay to not be okay. Remember those good old days when that just got repeated a million times and it felt like it made me want to puke. But that was better than what we have now. That was that was that was actually better. Yeah, that was better. I would go back to that now because that's much better than it's okay to not be okay, but not really because we're going to tell you how to fix everything that's wrong with you. Everything.

SPEAKER_04 22:39

And at the end of it there's always a supplement.

SPEAKER_02 22:41

Oh or a course or a something or a follow me or hit this button and like oh I can't but and on that note join the community the sort of community we will make you better in 60 days. But I think there's other than that too like you see this crazy shit. Like I literally ran across a woman that was like 80 days to become the person that I want to be 80 days. Like okay that gets a lot of and sure enough she went from no followers to like 30 000 followers in 80 days 80 days you became the person that you dreamt of being in 80 days.

SPEAKER_04 23:09

That was it huh that's simple pretty cool so like I'm number is is there a limit to that what if what if I wanted to be like a millipede what if my life ambition was to be a millipede she could do that in 80 days?

SPEAKER_02 23:21

Uh maybe I don't know. I mean listen I'm not minimizing that person's experience. I hope that they are getting what they want out of life that is true but what a weird way to go about it in a way like 80 days to become me and of course people are following she's going to become me in 80 days it's like oh I should do that too. I mean 60 days to overcome agoraphobia 30 days to banish anxiety. What's wrong with the current version of you now? I don't know. I mean we all might want to listen though I mean I think it's okay we all have things that we might want to improve grow learn change we're allowed to make those decisions but just because I think that something is wrong today doesn't mean I have to hate myself for being wrong today or deny my existence for being wrong today. I can work on it but I I think that culture that we're in promising these quick fixes I could banish your anxiety and there's a lot of in the anxiety community 60 day agoraphobia challenge the 14 day this challenge the 60 day the 90 day program like no that's not right because it implies that you should not be afraid anymore and that's not right. Maybe you will be afraid I might be afraid today I don't know might be accidentally afraid of my own heartbeat today.

SPEAKER_04 24:24

Maybe could happen you should be afraid you should be very afraid I know you're right so it's possible. Here's a did it anyway my name is Amy and you can use my name hello Amy I'm glad you followed up with that otherwise you'd be a bit screwed I wanted to share a did it anyway. Last weekend my parents went away for a night and I was home alone with only my little sibling this is the most dreaded scenario but I knew facing it was the only way through I didn't get much sleep and I was anxious the whole time but it wasn't as bad as I had feared. I agreed with my therapist that to work on this win with my parents would go away more regularly to give me more opportunities to do it anyway. I'm now slightly terrified and a bit worried that I might have white knuckled my way through last weekend. It doesn't matter if you did because I am now even more scared than I was before the exposure when I think about the next one is it just a matter of repetition or was I not truly accepting this tie you get a round of applause for doing the tricky thing well done but then this type this great did it anyway in into a question because it ties in today's episode oh no I'm white knuckling oh no am I truly accepting you're you're you're starting to deny that anxious it's okay to be anxious you're practicing being anxious yeah and it sounds like you're in a perfectionism is like I'm not doing it correctly to get rid of the feelings no no you did it as a therapist I'm way more interested in the fact that you're willing to do that. Well done. And if you white knuckled you white knuckle it doesn't matter practice. Practice do a bit of a time don't get all perfectionist about it.

SPEAKER_02 26:05

Well but but I did it so then I shouldn't be so scared this time. Who told you that like as if one you know one win and it's a big win get take the win but like as if one win is going to somehow change everything. And it is doesn't work that way.

SPEAKER_04 26:19

Yeah or if I do my one win perfectly it erases all anxiety forever.

SPEAKER_02 26:26

Right. Which that isn't the way that works. I would love it if it did but it just doesn't work that way. And it does lead to this whole like nope only the only the getting it recovery recovering version of me is okay. They got too scared today and maybe made a couple of mistakes version no not okay but that has to it has to be okay because you almost need that we talked about this in the past like and even in my therapy practice people will often like do the whole like oh I'm having a big setback and then later look back and say I kind of needed that setback because that actually pushed me further.

SPEAKER_04 26:58

Yeah oh yeah I don't regret getting re-sensitized twice told you after like a heavy one at a festival after many years of not even thinking about anxiety.

SPEAKER_02 27:09

Yeah I was resensitized but I'm so glad I did I learned way more there's something about that experience of having to get back up on the horse like reaffirm your commitment to acceptance and non-resistance and mindfulness and all that stuff that can be really really valuable. So like do not kick yourself in the face I know I'm using that a lot today as a joke but like what's the obsession with with violence towards the face it's the kick in the face the kick in the throat the throat the throat punch I was an old friend of mine who when we're going through Paxel withdrawal together she used to use throat punch all the time and it just stuck with me. But yeah but I think it's really important because like it doesn't matter that you were doing you know I was doing so great for three months and then oh my God I had a terrible night's sleep and now I'm back to square one. No no no don't do that to yourself like you you can you will learn from this too so keep learning. Come on you can do it.

SPEAKER_04 27:56

So yeah I agree boy that is didn't we have a read that really funny did it anyway from the community this is so I this is really good.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

I I would like to read this one I won't say the person's name but I am super pumped to hear this one. She starts with guys this is which is you know she's excited I was at a flag football tournament with my 10 year old son six hours away in Canton Ohio this person lives in Canada by the way the tournament was over and we were heading out for the long drive home when my son said he felt cold and his throat hurt and she gives the scared emoji. It was really good this is a good post anxiety red alert for my son my son fever equals puking hand up as an emetophobe this person suffers for the metaphobia and all my anxious brain could think of was oh shit. For once my worry was right on the money and one hour into the trip he started throwing up parentheses into my baseball cap chalk chalk one up for mom improvisation in the car no way out no way to avoid and this is the did it anyway part. I couldn't imagine driving five hours feeling like you're gonna hurl and my heart just went out to him he looked so miserable. So after a stop for the cleanup, even though my anxious brain was screaming, you'll probably get it, I sat right beside him and let him rest his head on my shoulder, trapped in the car and feeling anxious, knowing he could puke at any second for the next five hours spoiler alert, he didn't I felt so proud of myself because I didn't let anxiety dictate the mom I wanted to be a mom who could comfort my child when he was sick without running for the hills who could make who could soothe him and be there for him when he needed me the most I cannot tell you how good that felt. Who knew that my vomity son would be such a great exposure P.S. He's better today and eating pasta by the way I love I could not love this anymore. So good well done yeah I really enjoyed that one his values is all that and good well done well done I told you I told you I got over emetophobia with this my slimy vegetable I cannot tell you when we had don't recommend it but who wrote that I cannot remember now that when Dara was on and uh the guys who wrote uh and her psychologist they were gag reflections we had them on talking about emetophobia when I cannot tell you how often in my practice because I have a fair number of emetophobia cases you saying slimy vegetables is mentioned at least once a month in my practice they hate you and I'm like no no go back and listen again it's all good you look at you look at the listener stats of disordered when the emenophoto episode is like no no record listenership until Josh talked about eating a slimy vegetable and that's it we lost half our audience but it's actually good they laugh and you're right though. So for an emenophobe this I know was the worst case scenario. Oh my god he's vomiting I love how she like well I guess here's my hat like mom improvisation. Listen when the chips were down the real version of this person the values driven person showed up despite the fear. Yeah that is a huge lesson.

SPEAKER_04 30:54

So well done and you surprised yourself and you accepted all of you in the car and what a great way to wrap up the episode you're like you know what I'm choosing to do this. I'll be a good mom and all of me with the anxiety the worry the heart pounding the the the the the thoughts racing the what ifs and you sat for five hours in the car surprised yourself because you allowed every facet of yourself. Yeah to be it was unconditional.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Absolutely that's wonderful. Yeah and as it turns out the that is off limits and must never ever happen turned out to be wrong.

SPEAKER_04 31:24

Who knew because it could have gone the other way could have gone oh my god why am I having these thoughts I'm a bad mom blah blah blah I'm I'm so selfish and thinking about my emetophobia but you're like nope it's okay it's all about to be there.

SPEAKER_02 31:35

Yeah I was scared I was worried I was I was anxious and I was being a really good mom imagine that at the same time well done all of you I love it I know like yeah that's exactly right multiple versions of this person coexisting in the car at the same time to handle all the different things all emotions all context all versions of you all of it is welcome that is the lesson psychological flexibility for the win people so I I guess the only thing I would probably add to put a maybe a period on it is you're the end and my beginning. That's it uh the even when I lose I'm winning he's on a roll okay if you can is there a way I got through all the whole episode without saying in this I know is there a way for me to mute the co-host there might be what I was going to say is if you're listening to Disordered or you're on the community app whatever you're watching us there's a really good chance that you are trying to go all in on acceptance and willful tolerance and all that stuff. Cool I'm here for that I would maybe argue that you cannot do acceptance tolerance floating surrender all the things we talk about if you are going to be mean to the triggered version of yourself and just try to push them out the door. I don't know if those things can happen at the same time. Agreed there you go. So now we both agree so therefore so let it be written so let it be done clearly it's true if we both say it.

SPEAKER_04 32:52

The two arbiters of truth have agreed so therefore therefore it is decreed boom I feel like we need a gavel of some kind here but anyway it is I hear my decreed it is decreed I need we need a big scroll and a quill pen clearly so anyway no yeah yeah you can't can't do it if it's not a part of you that's willing to be nice to yourself I agree can't discipline or drill sergeant your way to desensitization.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

Be nice to yourself maggot yes irony I'm on that all right peeps thanks for listening what can we tell them anything in particular if you want to participate did it anyway or whatever you can go to disorder.fm send us a voicemail or an email we we listen to yeah disorder.fm voice mail yeah we we we're low on voicemails actually send in some voicemails if you want to do it if we get enough we'll do a did it anyway episode um yeah follow us on social media um go read the disordered guide to health anxiety book um which you can get um it's by disordered press that's on amazon um yeah and if you want to pop into the app uh say hello look at the resources chat away with other people um just post it anyways you can do on the community app which we love I've been a bit quiet recently because I've been on holiday traveling around but I can't wait to uh get back in and more involved I think one of the cool things about that space not to hawk it or anything but like everybody is very nice to each other they help each other be nice to themselves which I think is really great like hey don't beat yourself up is one of the things we hear most often which is I lovely I love to hear people say that. So all right guys we'll be back next week we'll do another one thanks for chilling to you later yep