Anxiety in the Supermarket or Grocery Store (Episode 152)

SPEAKER_04 0:06

Are you ready to go shopping? Step inside a very special supermarket. The only supermarket in the world that gives you money.

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We have Pop Tarts, Combat, Evian, Lipton, Bounty, and Contact. What I'm gonna do here is make a statement that could be associated with one of these products, okay? Here we go. Believe me, Mr. Christian. Crying over spilt milk will bounty.

SPEAKER_06 0:34

Let's see what the judges say. Yeah, I nailed it. Should we do another question? Do you think you can handle a supermarket sweep question?

SPEAKER_08 0:44

I reckon I can know this one. I need the UK one.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

All right, let's do it. I'm looking for the name of a product. Have a listen to this. Buzz in as soon as you know the product I'm talking about. It's made from cider, malt, or wine. It makes us pucker our lips. Oh, it's vinegar.

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Apple cider vinegar.

SPEAKER_06 1:02

Vinegar. Yeah, we are nailing it. We are nailing it today.

SPEAKER_08 1:06

Absolutely. Dale would be proud of that one.

SPEAKER_06 1:09

He really would. He really would.

SPEAKER_08 1:10

Welcome to Disordered. This is episode 152 called Anxiety in the Supermarket or Grocery Store. Very common for some reason. A lot of people with anxiety disorders can all converge and relate to the fears of the supermarket. Well, most of them can. My name's Joshua Fletcher. I am a psychotherapist and author specializing in the topic of anxiety and anxiety disorders. One of my first ever exposures was in the supermarket. And I was subsequently arrested. And 10 years later, I was allowed to come out and train to be a therapist. No, one of my first anxiety exposures was being in an Astra Express, small grocery store supermarket place, practicing with the feelings. And yeah, I used to get anxiety in the supermarket all the time. So I'm looking forward to talking about this today. I am joined by my esteemed co-host and also a competitor in the supermarket sweep. He is.

SPEAKER_06 2:07

Yes, I am Drew Linsolata, a therapist, also specializing in the treatment of anxiety and anxiety disorders, located in New York on the other side of the ocean. And also a former supermarket panicker. Supermarket was no fly zone for me. Probably the biggest one. Driving in the supermarket for sure, right? So uh yeah, let's look at, I mean, you guys know who we are. So let's get into it. I mean, what what prompted this one? Panic in the supermarket slash grocery store.

SPEAKER_08 2:33

Someone suggested it the other day. It was like, uh um everyone can relate to it. We're not really. I thought, well, why don't we just strip things back and be like, well, let's let's talk about an experience that we can all mutually well, say all, but a lot of people can mutually um kind of empathize with. Um for me, my supermarket anxiety was horrendous. I would I'd have the anticipatory anxiety, what if I panic in the supermarket? I used to get sensory overload, uh, the light in the supermarket, the mundanity, that musac that you often get in the background, um, the cognitive sequencing of what to buy. Um, I had loads of stuff. I used to research like the aisles, I used to keep an eye on the fire exit. I'd have intrusive thoughts about being, you know, like taken away, put in the asylum, escorted out. Um, and for a lot of people who are anxious, they don't like stopping and queuing. So when you get around all that, you've got that adrenaline, yeah, then you have to queue up, you know, and stop and interact sometimes with people and pay for shopping. It was uh it was a big one for me. Yeah, one of my first ever exposures was well, leaving the house, but then leaving the house to do something, and yeah, it was to go to the supermarket.

SPEAKER_06 3:48

Yeah. Supermarkets too tend to be grocery stores, whatever you call them where you are. They're bigger, so like they can be very deep. So you get into the supermarket, and yeah, the aisles were long, and you know, you're walking down a long, relatively narrow aisle with the wall, you know, the shelves on both sides of you, and the vision it would be like, Oh my goodness, I'm definitely like dizzy in this aisle. I'm bouncing from side to side, or I thought I was. I mean, it really wasn't in the end. And then the deeper you would get into the back of the store, here it's always like the dairy section, milk and eggs and all that stuff, all the way in the back corner of the store. And it was just like, oh my goodness, like I could not get out of there fast enough when before I really knew better. And my big fear was that I was, it wasn't if I would panic in the supermarket, I was panicking in the supermarket, and I would feel like there's no way I'm gonna get how am I gonna get out of here? How am I gonna walk out of here? And then the waiting in line or the queue, oof, you know, looking for like, and I would bounce around like let's say, oh, that one's going faster, so let me go over there and see because I'll get out of here sooner. And it was just a constant, like, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, I gotta get out of here. It I hated it, it was terrible.

SPEAKER_08 4:51

Yeah, oh no, so it was the place for me as well where DPDR was like mega. In fact, I did a DPDR workshop a year or two ago with that you popped in on. Oh, yeah. Uh, it's available on the disordered app if you if you remember, you can just watch it for uh as part of it. Uh and the image of it is literally a supermarket aisle and what it kind of looked like to me. It was like, whoa, it was all obscure. I think it's to do with like the light, they have like some mad lights in supermarkets, don't they? Everything's lit up, and I was just like, whoa, like I I think there's something in it how everyone can relate to it, it's the juxtaposition of the mundanity of a supermarket and our internal maelstrom that's going on. And and it makes it feel a bit like, oh, I shouldn't be feeling like this in a mundane supermarket. And I think it really brings to it's very confronting for people who are anxious, whether in you know, whether you've got panic disorder, agrophobia, monophobia, OCD, when you're in that sensitive, sensitized state and everything's a sensory overwhelm. The supermarket can really bring that home. And it certainly did that for me.

SPEAKER_06 5:56

Yeah, yeah, 100%. And the it was so hard too, because it's a chore that everybody kind of has to do. And you're right, you're in a building surrounded by inanimate objects, like cans of tuna fish. There's nothing dangerous at all or challenging about a supermarket, except it felt like it was, and it contributed to that whole thing, like I cannot believe I can't even go here. So something's as silly as like, hey, uh, can you pick up some, you know, whatever bread on the way home, or we're out of milk, or we need eggs so the kids can have breakfast tomorrow morning. Like, that would be a no-brainer. Yeah, I'll stop in and get some eggs. Ah, but it wasn't a no-brainer, it was such a huge challenge, and it it felt so disruptive in my life for sure. But uh oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 6:34

Uh it's always been it's always a go-to as well with that for me over the years doing exposures with clients. Like it's uh sometimes even just standing outside here. That would that would that was it, you know. And then you go in. There's so many variables, isn't it? There's people, there's noises, people are afraid of embarrassing themselves, people are afraid of passing out. That was a big one for me in supermarkets. Or what if I get so anxious I pass out and embarrass myself? Or what if I get so anxious it's I lose control? Yeah, you know, start picking up items off the shelves, lobbing them at everyone. I uh you know, I have to be arrested and stuff like that. And it was all all I just I just wanted to pick up the ingredients for a lasagna, right? You know, didn't it didn't need to end this way. And yeah, I've run out of supermarkets in the past, you know. Now I just don't, yeah, it's boring, but like I know what it's like for the brain and the amygdala to think that that was a threat.

SPEAKER_06 7:28

Yeah, 100%. Amygdala. I did my share running out of supermarkets. I the it's interesting. I remember years ago seeing, you know, we have Walmart here in the US. You guys have Walmart over there? Well, Asda, I guess, is Walmart over there or owns Wal all owns Asda or whatever. But Walmart is huge, you know, giant retailer here in the US. And I remember reading uh uh just an interesting tidbit about the how Walmart tracks abandoned shopping carts, the physical carts. I don't mean like dying now on the internet. So they have cameras, and as soon as they could do that, they started tracking people who would abandon their shopping carts. Because in areas where Walmart is the supermarket and a lot of rural America, that is it. Abandoned shopping carts means they are losing millions of dollars in that store over the lifetime of that person. What made that person abandon the shopping cart? And I'm thinking, I know why they abandoned the shopping cart. These are all agoraphobics, right? These are people who ran out because they were having panic attacks. Clearly, that's probably not it. But they wanted to know, like, well, what is it? Is the price? Is it blah blah blah? The lines are too long. No, they were probably panicking and running out of the store. That was my interpretation immediately. So we are costing more than that.

SPEAKER_08 8:34

Micro avoidances as well, though. So I was like, in the middle of the store, I'd be like, Oh, this is bad. But then towards the end of the store, I like at least there's a fire exit that I could run out just in case. I'm like, what? And then that would make me feel better. Yeah, like as if I would run past the deli counter and dive out of the fire exit. Really weird. You know, these little things, anything to give us that illusion that we can get out, get out, get away from feelings that we don't think we can handle.

SPEAKER_06 9:01

Yeah, you have to run through, like there's always the the door that leaves like the retail section into the back, like the warehouse, or wherever the employees are, the stocking area. And I always have these visions of myself running through that, because you got to run through that to get out the fire doors and hitting the big do not open door, bam, and then the alarm goes because it has the panic bar on it. Panic bar, that's literally what it's called, by the way. The panic bar. And I would be like, uh, but that's the fastest way out. If I got to go all the way to the front again, like it's gonna take me a good two minutes to get out of here, and I can't I can't afford that kind of time. So what a nightmare the shopping. The supermarket was just man, it was my nemesis.

SPEAKER_07 9:38

Everyone, everyone gets to honestly.

SPEAKER_08 9:40

I I did it. Well, I'll go I'll probably do a little TikTok or something on it because everyone can relate to it. Uh I was just uh studio audience here. Some some of them are saying, I used to run to the candle section to chill out when panic arrives.

SPEAKER_07 9:51

Sniff the candles, but someone run, so I love the pajama section.

SPEAKER_06 9:57

These are all great. Somebody just mentioned the shopping carts in Walmart end up with abandonment anxiety. These are funny people. Oh, really great. So sometimes it's worth braving the anxiety. Last week I found a 2026 Cliff Richard calendar, which had been reduced to 14 pence. Big win. Big win in the supermarket. Oh exactly.

SPEAKER_07 10:18

It's worth it. It's worth it.

SPEAKER_06 10:20

We we have a did it anyway that's supermarket related. And listen for the part you mentioned, the cognitive sequencing of having to figure out what to buy. So check this one out. It's pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 10:31

Hi guys. I just wanted to share a quick I did it anyway. Um, my name is Julia. You can use my name. So I suffer with agoraphobia, mainly related to uh driving and shopping at the grocery store. And recently I just moved um states away, and now I'm in a new, unfamiliar place, and I'm not familiar with the roads, and they have different stores and even back home. So it's all very new and unexpected. But I had to drive to the grocery store to go shopping. Um, and I dreaded it all the day beforehand and the morning before, just like, oh, what am I gonna do? I'm freaking out. Um, but I did it anyway. Drove to the store. It was pretty uneventful. I was pretty anxious the whole time, but just drove like normal. And even at the store, you know, I kept getting waves of panic in the store, and I had to remind myself that that was fine, that, you know, you can have a panic attack in aisle seven by the bread and just continue shopping. So that was a huge win, you know what I mean? Uh, especially when panic feelings are there and it's just screaming at you to like run out of the store. So the fact that I didn't, and I just kept pushing through and shopping was a huge, huge win. What I purchased was not as good of a win, though. It kind of looked like I let a toddler make all the decisions. But other than that, the fact that I did it, um, I'm very proud of myself. So I just wanted to share that with you guys. And, you know, thank you guys for everything you did.

SPEAKER_07 11:53

That's so good. So good. Thank you.

SPEAKER_08 11:56

But no, you in fact you get an official UK 1994 supermarket sweep applause. You ready? Yep.

SPEAKER_05 12:07

Good morning, team.

SPEAKER_06 12:08

I love her idea that, like, well, what I purchased, eh, it felt like we I let a toddler make the decisions. I came home with stuff that we definitely didn't need, but it was closer. So I'm like, well, let me just grab that. Let me just grab that. And we'd be like, What? Since when do we need this? I'm like, well, we did need it because it was closer to the door. So clearly we needed it.

SPEAKER_08 12:29

Yeah. Oh, I remember the the a successful exposure for me, uh, the what I would deem as um successful is that I I would write down like eight objects. I think, no, the first one I've done was five. And I go in and be like, it doesn't matter how long it takes me, I'm just gonna go in and find five objects. Because you know what cognitive sequencing is like when you're really triggered, half your brain is like a panic, panic, panic, panic, panic, panic, panic, and half of your brain is, you know, come and do what non-anxious you would do. And we often say on disordered, you know, 51% of your attention. So I'd go in and be like, at least 51% of my attention is going to be on that. I practice my golden rules, non-anxious me would go to the supermarket whilst anxious, and I'm not going to make anxiety the most important thing in the supermarket. Does it mean that it's not gonna be there? No, so I went in and yeah, I mean I've had the intrusive thoughts, the sensory overload, all that. But it's just discomfort. And I remember getting there, and by the time I got my fourth, fifth item, I remember having the thought, yes, now you can leave. And then I remember thinking, no, because I don't want to run back out right now. I'm then gonna find a mystery item. By the way, the mystery item in supermarket sweep is always like a giant inflatable fruit or something. And and I thought, no, I'm gonna use another part of my brain here and not rush out. Uh and then there were two cues leaving the supermarket, and again, I was trying to not subscribe to that urgency of leaving the supermarket. So there was a queue with like one person or two people there, and there's a queue with five people, and I remember like being really proud of myself, going, No, I chose the queue with the five people. Why? Because it's longer in the supermarket. And by the time I got there and started chatting to the the woman who was on the t operating the till, I was chatting to her for a bit, I don't know what it was. She was quite chatty, it was really nice. And then by the time I'd actually bagged up my shopping, I felt really good. Not because I was running out hoping the exposure would erase anxiety forever, but because I was willing to teach the brain, no, it's okay, I can do things with this here.

SPEAKER_06 14:41

Yeah. That's the and you know, we always talk about things like the no-fly zone or the acceptable zone here. The supermarket, a lot of people will be like, oh no, you know, yeah, you gotta panic in the supermarket, or at least be fully willing to do it. That's part of the exposure. Oh no, no, no, I can't possibly allow myself to panic in the supermarket. Uh it's interesting. I love that. It was a really good example, too, of how you had to approach the exposure. The reason why I wrote the book 7% slower was because of my supermarket experiences when I was a real anxious person. I I could say, yeah, it had its origins in the Wallbounds. The Wallbounds doesn't exist on Long Island anymore, it's one of our big supermarkets, but that I used to shop in. And I would discover that, like, as I got more and more anxious, I was going faster and faster, and I was just throwing things into the cart and just trying to go as fast as possible. I was turning it into a hit and run experience, like get in, get out as quick as possible, get back into my car and go home. And I discovered, wait a minute, I have to slow down. And that was the origin of 7% slower. I just had to try to walk slower, just a little bit slower, so I wasn't running. I didn't want to run out of that supermarket on anxiety's terms. So that was part of how I had to really slow it down. Like, no, no, no, I'm not gonna run out because it's teaching me the wrong lesson. I gotta get out of here as fast as possible. That sucked, but it was very helpful to do.

SPEAKER_08 15:59

Such an amazing feeling though, when the anxiety comes down and you've not left. Like the world looks like a genuinely different place, it really does. And you feel quite emotional, and I was like, wow, yeah, I didn't have to run. I tolerated that. Yep. And I tolerated it willfully. And look what happened. It wasn't white knuckling. I did a lot of white knuckling experiences, you know. Oh, I go in if I stand and be scared in the supermarket and then hope that anxiety disappears and that I've cured myself forever. No, it's the willingness to be with that discomfort and allowing the anxiety to pass without giving the credit to other things. Well, you know, thankfully, my don't get me wrong, if you want to start off small and build up, that's fine. But the ultimately the end goal is oh, I only survived because my loved one was in the same aisle, or I only survived because I was near the fire escape, or I only survived because you know, I I could use the self-checkout and things like that. But it's a good it's always a great practice, Grant, if it scares you.

SPEAKER_07 16:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 17:00

You know, you know, it's not everyone's afraid of the supermarket, but it is a common one. One of the uh studio audiences actually just said, I'm actually en route to the to the huge Sainsbury. Very, very even as we speak. Uh yeah, as we speak. So this is fing. Good, go and be scared.

SPEAKER_06 17:16

I I see a comment uh in again. We have a studio audience here. I can't think logically when I'm convinced reality is collapsing, and I don't know how to think more logically. Well, I can answer that. You don't don't try to think more logically. That's one of those mistakes that people make in a in an exposure or a challenge. Like they want to try to think their way into feeling better, and that just simply does not work. Once that part of your brain has been activated and your limbic system is an overdrive, the idea that you can be logical to calm down is out the door. Like that is that ship has sailed, it is not gonna happen. So the brave part of an exposure is I feel like this is incredibly unsafe that fear structure has been activated. But I need to show myself by not acting like I'm in danger that it is in fact incorrect. I do not have to be activated here. But forget trying to use logic, that's a dead end. It's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_08 18:11

No, you can't use you can't think your way out of doubt. Yep. The doubt response. Treat it, and I've said this to clients as well like if you're in there and you're trying to think yourself calm and apply logic, it doesn't work because the threat response isn't interested in that and wants you to doubt. So we treat it like the radio. When I go into the supermarket, when when I used to go back in, they had I think like Capital FM or something, which if you're into Capital FM, that's cool. I'm not, and I found it abhorrent. Uh and they play the same five tunes. Now, I would every time I go into supermarket, I don't really listen to the music. I've tuned my brain out. I'm not trying to argue and reason with the radio to turn off. So I'm not gonna try and argue and reason with another radio station, which is radio anxiety in my head. What if that one you can't do that? Whatever, Craig the Critic, or that I'm just like, no, I can use the other part of my brain, which is I need to get these items and all these noises and sounds and sensations can be there, and I'm not gonna bother you know interacting with them. Yeah. That's the way to do it. Treat it like the radio. You can get annoyed, the capital FM is on, or you can be like, well, I can tune out and just concentrate on what I'm doing.

SPEAKER_06 19:22

Yeah. If we want to be supermarket specific or grocery specific since that was what we're talking about, I think the other logic thing that people get stuck on logic or content. The content is passing out. No, no, no, but that's not really it's not about passing out. It's just about being afraid. And I think in the supermarket, uh, some of the more interest and the interesting things and I did, and I would hear people argue, is that no, no, no, the supermarket is different because the supermarket has fluorescent lights. Now they probably don't anymore because now everything is LED. But back in the day, I would have people vehemently arguing that no, no, the supermarket could not be an exposure because the reason I am anxious there is because the the fluorescent lights flicker at a certain frequency that somehow throws off my GABA, like my my HPA axis. And they were convinced that that was exactly what it was. I that was a very specific use of logic that this is why the supermarket is triggering to me. But as it turns out, it wasn't. And people would also talk about the um the differences in temperature in a supermarket. Oh, the problem is they have that frozen in the dairy section, and then the difference in temperature is triggering and it throws I've heard Vegas nerf thrown out there, like it activates me. So no, no, no, the supermarket can't be an exposure. But that turned out to be wrong in every case.

SPEAKER_08 20:35

So I can I can relate to that as well. Like um, obviously, it depends what you want. You know, there's no right and wrong way to live your life if you want to live it however you want. But if you're talking about like listen to how your logic is hijacked by the anxious response need for you to avoid, yeah. So I get this a lot in um with my fellow autistic people, obviously, not neurodivergent. Part of being of my autism is that yes, I have get really oversensitized to panoramic sound and light, you know. Does that make me incapable? No. Am I going to say, no, I cannot go in there because of my autism? No. I made a decision for me that I can do this, I have done this in the past, and I bet it's the same people with the GABA frequencies and all that. Yeah, yeah, I bet there was a stage in your life where you could do this, and not oh, I wanted to to go and do that. So be careful about how the anxious response tries to hijack that avoidance um narrative. Yeah, it's okay.

SPEAKER_06 21:40

And I think there's a difference between like uh a neurodivergent adaptation in the supermarket, which is normal. That's what you would find your adaptation there, and I'm terrified of my body and my mind in the supermarket, so I can't go there. But there's a difference, right? So we can always support the adaptation because that's a that's an adaptive, uh useful response that you may need to To use to get through that environment. But uh anyway. Do we have any other did it anyways, wins, questions? What's going on in the chat here?

SPEAKER_08 22:09

I've got a written did anyway. Do you wanna do you wanna hear it? Yeah, bring it. Let's hear it. Hi, true and josh, and this is from AJ. Thank you so so much for this podcast and all your work. It helped me so much in some of my hardest times. My did it anyway happened yesterday, and I kept thinking throughout how proud I'd be if I could submit one here, which is disorder.fm, after which helped a lot. I've had a lot of panic attacks in cabs and in music rehearsals since I started having constant panic attacks last year and was diagnosed with panic disorder. My panic attacks have made my career as a musician where I need to travel with my instruments so hard. Yesterday I got a cab to our rehearsal venue and was so anxious beforehand. The night before, a morning of, I was absolutely dreading it. And what would happen if I started having an attack? I immediately started getting my panic symptoms when I sat in the cab. My chest tightened up, my feet and hands started tingling and shaking, my air hunger got worse, I felt dizzy, and the impending doom started. But I did it anyway. I sat with those symptoms and said to myself, You can do this and you can get through it. I like that. That is how you speak to yourself. And I did. I was so proud of myself for being in that cab for an hour and getting through it. When I got into rehearsals, I started panicking again. But I allowed myself to have those feelings and thoughts and still managed to play my violin really well. At the end of rehearsals, I had to get another cab home, and after doing it anyway on the way, I felt so much calmer on the way home. It's hard to feel proud of ourselves in life, and I felt so proud. I already feel calmer about getting into uh getting a cab into rehearsals today. Thank you both again.

SPEAKER_06 24:02

Oh that is textbook right there.

SPEAKER_08 24:07

I enjoyed that. That was really, really good. Yeah. Uh, and do be proud of yourself. That's really good. You've you you rewired your brain.

SPEAKER_07 24:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 24:15

You're willing to do it. I like the bit where you you weren't trying to talk and reason with your anxiety to go away. It was no, I can get through this. Yep. That's the willful tolerance talk about. I will get through this. Not why am I anxious? It's just a cab. Cabs aren't dangerous. I've been in lots of cabs before. Is reason helping the anxiety to turn off? No, no.

SPEAKER_06 24:36

You just did it. Well done. So you play the violin. How cool is that? Really cool, right? They're very cool. Yeah. And you know what? I think musical instruments is one of those things that, like, if you want to practice with 51% of your attention, because it does require your attention. I don't care how good you are at your instrument, you must pay attention to playing the instrument. So if you want to do something that isn't rumination or escaping or avoiding, uh, why not pick up your instrument if you have one? Because you might not be so good at it at first when you pick it up, but as you commit to like, no, no, no, I'm going to play. I'm going to do the scale exercise. I'm going to do whatever I do. Like, you are practicing moving your attention to the instrument. So it's really kind of cool. And I think the the cab and the you know practice venue is a really good example of what happens in the supermarket too. Because the reason why I would panic in the supermarket is because I once panicked in the supermarket. So therefore, I was afraid to go back there and repeat the experience. So this person panicked in a cab and now became afraid of the cab, panicked in uh rehearsal. So now I'm afraid to go to rehearsal. Like just as happening.

SPEAKER_08 25:36

I don't necessarily reconcile though, because my panic wasn't I never panicked in the supermarket. I had to go and panic in the supermarket because my fear was panicking in front of people and being away from my safe space. But yeah, I mean, for a lot of people, you do panic. I panicked in the supermarket. For me, it was like I can't imagine myself being in the supermarket because I've panicked at work and I've panicked at home away from home. So the supermarket was the test. And actually, it was even more confronting because it was like, oh my god, the last time I was in the supermarket, I didn't panic, and it looks really weird. Yeah. You know, interesting. Yeah, yeah. And I was like, whoa.

SPEAKER_06 26:12

Okay, I can appreciate that.

SPEAKER_08 26:13

Not necessarily, it's not necessarily the met don't get me wrong, if you panic somewhere, the memory encodes it. But if you fear fear in your body, it doesn't really matter, does it, where you go? Just the supermarket is just like you said, one of those things that we all have to do.

SPEAKER_06 26:26

I think that's a really good point. Yeah, for me, uh I would start panicking in the car, so I became afraid to drive, and I would panic in the supermarket, so I became afraid to panic there. But once I became afraid to panic at all, then it generalizes to any place that I don't think is calm and safe is going to be a problem, even though I never panicked there before.

SPEAKER_08 26:45

Uh that's what I learned of Dave Carbonel. You know, we've had him on the podcast. He says most people develop plane phobias sat at home. It's not on the plane.

SPEAKER_06 26:54

Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 26:56

It it it it's I fear my internal sensations uh on the plane that I can't imagine myself on.

SPEAKER_06 27:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 27:02

That's and I was always stuck with me like, it was a clever man, Dave Carbonell.

SPEAKER_06 27:07

It's also why we call anxiety disorders non-specific phobias, because they generalize the fear of fear. Well, like I will I wasn't I wasn't afraid, and it was like you. I never panicked in the supermarket, but now I'm afraid to go in there. Yeah, I know the phobia is non-specific, it follows me around across multiple contexts. So, you know, really good. Um, how about we do an audio? I have another audio did it anyway. This is like a life yes, this is a life did it anyway, and it's really good. So let's listen.

SPEAKER_02 27:35

Hey Josh and Drew. I just want to say a really big thank you all the way from little old New Zealand. Um, I was suffering from panic disorder and health anxiety a few years ago now. I first found your book, Josh, and it um it was an absolute miracle. I couldn't believe um that someone was writing exactly how I was feeling and making me feel like I wasn't crazy. Um, and then both your podcasts have been really, really helpful. I was listening to them every week, waiting for them to come out, and I'm happy to say that I don't need to listen to them often anymore. It's been a couple of years, and um, through implementing your strategy strategies and listening to your advice and just having you you both in in my ears um every week has just been an absolute godsend. So I just want to say um a huge thank you. Uh since then, I've managed to do a round of IVF, um have a successful pregnancy, um, get through a pretty traumatic birth um and become pregnant again. So um it's just been yeah, without your advice and your help, I don't know how I would have got through all of that. So um thanks thanks again. Um, really appreciate it.

SPEAKER_08 28:55

Oh wow, that's so good. Thank you. Thank you for sharing that as well. I I personally really appreciate that. Um we all have inner critics sometimes, and when you hear something like that, you're just a reminder of me personally, you know, that you're doing some uh some good stuff. And uh well done to you. You get the credit, but I'm glad that we're a part of that go that way journey. You know, that way is the way to go.

SPEAKER_06 29:21

Yeah, so thank you so much. Some really great life stuff, IVF, difficult pregnancy, but like, nope, nope, this is what I want in life, and that's what I'm gonna do. So that that was great. I mean, yeah, it was a little self-serving, but thank you for the kind words. But yes, you get the credit. We didn't do anything, we saved nobody here.

SPEAKER_08 29:36

So you have to decide to do it, but thank you for trusting us. Yeah, lovely. Absolutely. Well, what's the weirdest thing you've bought in a supermarket?

SPEAKER_06 29:44

Oh, the weirdest thing, there's always that like odd, at least in American supermarkets, there's the usual things in a supermarket, but then there's always that seasonal aisle of like, where did you guys find this stuff? What did this fall off a truck? What was it? It's some sort of odd lot of shit.

SPEAKER_08 29:59

Yeah, we we've got a supermarket called Aldi over here. I once bought a snorkel.

unknown 30:03

Oh yes.

SPEAKER_08 30:05

Flip-flops, and it was in the middle of yeah, it was in the middle of, yeah, it's always flip-flop. What a snorkel, it was in the middle of frozen pizzas on one side and condiments the other side, and then the Aldi, the famous Aldi Middle Isle is that there's just there's just random crap in there, and I'm like, there's a snorkel for three pounds. Yeah, can't wait to use that. Never used it.

SPEAKER_06 30:26

Can't afford not to have the snorkel for just three pounds. I mean, come on. Exactly.

SPEAKER_08 30:31

It would be stupid not to.

SPEAKER_06 30:32

I mean, there's always an interesting toy section that little kids love, but like I as an adult, I come home with like the big like dodgeball balls, bouncy balls, like love those, or the little tiny, like alien, I don't know where this material comes for that bounced higher than most skyscrapers. Take that thing in the middle of London and bounce it, it's going over the top of the biggest building you got. Like, where how do they make those? I bought those at the supermarket. Just because I'm yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_08 31:01

I remember that. Yeah, I remember I love I love that. Yeah, yeah. Um, so if you're someone who does is afraid of the supermarket and you're afraid of your inner symptoms, you have a fear of fear, maybe you have a safe zone that you need to run back to or a safe person, and your anxiety is saying no, the supermarket is different, this is special. What's a good button that Drew can press? No, this is anxiety in the supermarket.

SPEAKER_06 31:28

And you know what about that? It doesn't matter. The supermarket is a point.

SPEAKER_08 31:33

What if I panic in the vegetable aisle?

SPEAKER_06 31:37

What about the frozen?

SPEAKER_08 31:38

What if I go crazy and I'm escorted out by the authorities and lose my job?

SPEAKER_06 31:43

I like how you were I was just shopping for lasagna. It didn't have to end this way. Maybe one of the greatest things you've ever said in this podcast.

SPEAKER_07 31:50

It didn't have to end this way. I know literally, I went shopping for lasagna ingredients. And I was hauled off. Not like this. Not like this.

SPEAKER_06 31:59

No, I was like hauled, never to be heard from again. They sectioned me after that. It was really, really bad. But I know that you know, we always talk about content versus process. The the supermarket specific content doesn't matter. And we joke with the sound, but like it really doesn't matter. The problem is I am afraid of these sensations and these thoughts, and they feel like I am supposed to act. And I I feel certain that not going to the supermarket or running to the supermarket or having my safe person or having my ice packs, a very famous anxiety person who I will not name, their very first book was about how to stick your head in the freezer in the supermarket. Okay, fair.

SPEAKER_08 32:38

I got a load of crap on Instagram the other day for that. Yeah, I said five things I wouldn't tell you to do, like stick your head in a bowl of ice. Yeah. You know, because and I'm like, I I won't even go into it. If you listen to the podcast, you know why that's not a good idea. Sure. I got loads of people like, well, actually, in dbt, it's a it's a grounding tank. I was like, yeah, all right. DBT specific for someone. If someone's has decided that dialectical behavioral therapy for that person is appropriate for their life situation after analysis and a consultation, that's okay. Does that mean everyone should be doing DBT and putting their head in ice? No, it does not.

SPEAKER_06 33:17

You know, it's just like But that's a supermarket specific thing. Well, there's a freezer in the supermarket, so I can I know people who will like, oh, I'll sit on the edge of the freezer because it's really cold and it'll shock me out of my panic, or I'll stick my face in the in the cooler where the ice cream is, and that'll shock me out of my panic. But like the supermarket specific, the line is too long, the aisles are too long, the lighting is weird, the building is too big, that specific content. Just come back. You always got to come back to the process. I'm having sensations that scare me and thoughts that scare me, and it feels like the right thing to do to follow that fear. But I've been sorry, I thought I turned that off, but I have been wrong every single time that I follow that fear. So I need to learn through experience that I don't have to keep following that fear. I can't keep arguing on its behalf, but it feels too scary, it's too hard. I can't think logically. Okay, how does that working out for you though?

SPEAKER_08 34:07

So yeah, no, yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_07 34:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_08 34:11

Anyway, as of that was that's on supermarket stuff. Um, it's really nice in the studio. Lots of members of our studio audience are now off to the supermarket as we're recording. I'm glad we inspired you. Uh, if you want to come uh be part of the disordered community app, it's not mandatory, we don't gatekeep anything, but if you want to be part of the community, you can do at disordered.fm. And you like I said, we don't monetize this uh podcast with advertisements or sponsors. But if you want to come and be part of the community and have access to loads of resources, roundtables, workshops, past workshop recordings, what read other people's did it anyways. Um, see my inane updates. I've used I've been put some inane updates in that app recently. Just like I'm just sat in a chair um doing stuff that um, yeah, come and join. Really lovely supported community. Uh it's one of the favourite things that I've done uh of recent years. Uh, you can do it. Sort of if not, it doesn't matter. We'll be here every Friday. You can submit stuff to disordered.fm. Did it anyways, recordings, emails, try our best to get through them. And um, yeah, other stuff as well. Uh, we've got the health anxiety book, which is doing really well. Some lovely feedback on that. Uh, that's called the Disordered Guide to Health Anxiety, and you can find that uh by Disordered Press on Amazon and stuff like that. Anything else I can plug? Oh, yeah, thanks for the pre-orders for same time next week. Oh, a question I was actually asked quite a lot. Uh if you want to pre-order it and you're outside of the UK, go to Blackwell's bookstore and type in same time next week and click on the hardback, and you can get it when it's released. They will ship internationally. So yeah, and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg either. So there we are.

SPEAKER_06 35:51

Very cool. Hey, you know, if we don't get enough people to join the disordered community, maybe we'll just get Walmart or like Asda or Aldi to sponsor this podcast, sponsored by supermarkets. Why not? Hey, we're really sorry you're crippling existential OCD, but eggs are on sale this week at Aldi. So just so you know, I would I would do that.

SPEAKER_08 36:13

Be awful. If if we had sponsors that were non-mental health related, just by today's uh episode is sponsored by a jam donut. I'd be like, Yeah, go and eat the jam donuts. That's wicked.

SPEAKER_06 36:24

Do we get a pack of the donuts? Yeah, that's all we would take for payment. That's all I would need, really, is a couple of the donuts. Sure, I'll read that.

SPEAKER_08 36:32

Any more modulation vagal devices and brain stimulation things and get them all the time.

SPEAKER_06 36:39

No, no, no. No, but we will advertise flip-flops, snorkel. Maybe we can get a snorkel manufacturer to sponsor us now that you've come clean about your snorkel problem.

SPEAKER_08 36:48

Are you 700 miles inland and have no use for a snorkel? So am I. But I bought one anyway.

SPEAKER_06 36:55

Oh, goodness. So, anyway, guys, thanks for hanging out this week and listening to our silly supermarket anxiety thing. It's not silly, it's a real challenge, but like you guys can do it. We know you can. Otherwise, we wouldn't be behind these dumb microphones every week. And uh be back next week and do another one. Cool. Catch you soon, guys.

SPEAKER_04 37:14

Step inside a very special supermarket. The only supermarket in the world that gives you money. 2,000 pounds is waiting for us to help to be won by top market in this store. The aim of the game is to stop.